By Northstar82 - 11 Feb 2015
Shan and I are currently in Rhode Island planning our summer 2015 cruise on North Star to France, Spain and Portugal with the intention of arriving in Canaries in November and crossing to St. Lucia in early January. The problem is Schengen 's 90-day limits for non-EU residents.
I am currently looking into the possibility of applying for a French visitor visa for 1-yr residence (D Visa). We want to cruise leisurely south along the west coast of France, linger in the rias in Spain and Portugal and make an unhurried passage to Madeira and Canaries. The biggest issue seems to be not having a fixed residence to list on the application.
I have not heard of anyone doing this successfully. On the CA website one suggested that it was possible. Has anyone been successful in finding a way around the 90-day Schengen limits for non-EU residents?
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By simoncurrin - 11 Feb 2015
Ted,
There is another post on this at http://forum.oceancruisingclub.org/uk-and-northern-europe/988-changes-to-schengen-definition-of-a-short-stay#1357
I have no expertise on this but wondered if visiting the non EU Channel Isles might re-set the clock? Similarly Morroco?
Simon
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By Northstar82 - 11 Feb 2015
Shan and I have continued to pursue alternatives. We heard that cruisers were not able to get a long stay D visitors visa in Italy. They said the Italian consulate was looking for large bank balances and intent to reside in Italy. We have also heard from cruisers in Cartagena Spain that they were successful in getting their long stay visitor visa from the French Consulate in San Francisco. They said they provided credit card charge history, picture and title for the boat, and contract for the marina (which was not looked at).
We live in Rhode Island and have contacted the consulate in Boston by email and asked the question about proof of accommodation which asks for lease papers, rental agreement, etc. Their response was that title for our boat and contract with the boatyard for a month was OK if we provided an address in France. Not clear whether they mean the address of the boatyard or another point of contact. Just to make sure we have all bases covered we will provide the address for both the boatyard and resident friends.
The French LSV reads to allow residence in France for up to a year, requires orientation at a local immigration and integration office in France, allows travel to other Schengen countries while the LSV is in effect. I will post the results of our visit to the consulate next week.
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By DariaBlackwell - 12 Feb 2015
Ted, keep in mind that Ireland is a member of the EU but outside the Schengen agreement. The cruising grounds, especially along the west and south coasts are magnificent, but challenging.
The following information was provided by OCC member Kingsley Ross who is following this matter very closely:
OCC Touring Visa Announcement
The European Union Commission is considering legislation that would create a Touring Visa. If passed, the proposal could allow citizens from nations that are not members of the Schengen Treaty to stay in most of the EU and several other countries for up to one year. As proposed, the visa could be renewed for a second year. Currently, the Shengen Treaty allows visitors to stay 90 days out every 180 days. The Schengen Treaty is what made it possible for most citizens of the EU to move freely across the EU without needing to check into each country they enter. Today it involves 26 countries (see http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-11-608_en.htm?locale=en and http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/go/schengen-fact-sheet.html#1).
The proposal will undergo a long review process and is not expect to be acted on finally before 2015.
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By Kingsley.Ross - 14 Feb 2015
Ted - The latest on Schengen Touring Visa is that it will not be implemented until 2016 at the earliest and through separate emails, you already have been in touch with Walt Kass who obtained a French term visa recently.
Please keep us posted on how you meet the French requirements so all of us can benefit from it. Thanks.
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By Northstar82 - 14 Feb 2015
The touring visa certainly will open future year stays in Schengen countries. For the time being we will have to be satisfied with the French Long Stay Visa (LSV). The consulate has a detailed check list for their requirements for the visa. The only one problematic requirement was "medical evacuation" and "repatriation", but thanks to suggestions by other cruisers like Kingsley Ross we will get by this one before our meeting at the consulate. I think the major impediment was the cost of travel insurance. I am somewhat of a penny pincher and did not want to pay for parts of the insurance that I did not want or need; on some policies the term was limited to 30, 45, or 180 days which doesn 't help for a longer overseas cruise.
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By Kingsley.Ross - 14 Feb 2015
Ted - while it is not on your radar we just received our Italian Type D visas via the Miami consulate. It only about a week for them to issue it. They had no problem with us living on our boat.
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By Northstar82 - 14 Feb 2015
We have heard from others who were not successful with the Italian D Visa. Glad to hear of your success. There seem to be many variables that can lead to either success of failure. Thanks for the feedback.
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By Northstar82 - 27 Feb 2015
The wording of the Schengen Agreement is such that after 90 days the non-EU resident needs to spend 90 days outside. Yes, it would reset the clock if you could spend 90 days there. Spending the winter in Britain might be another option that would work,
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By Northstar82 - 27 Feb 2015
Shan and I ventured up to the French Consulate for our appointment with the Visa Officer Wednesday. We received a FEDEX today (Friday) with our passports and approved long stay Visas (LSV) which are good for a year stay in France! (We will still need to check in with the Office of Immigration and Integration when we get to France to validate the visa within 90 days of our arrival.)
The meeting with the Visa Officer was conducted with both of us present, but processed individually. He just marched down the check list on their website and we handed over the papers as he asked for them. He kept all the papers I gave him. He was satisfied with North
Star 's USCG registration copy and the marina 's emailed estimate (devis). We purchased a Seven Corners policy for emergency evacuation and repatriation since the Navy retirement medical did not cover that. The coverage period needed to fit our planned stay in France. No mention of any deductible limits. We provided both income and investments since we are retired.
We will be cruising south along the west coast of France and then west/south across the coast of Spain and south along Portugal leading to Madeira or Canaries. The French LSV allows for passage through other Schengen countries back to France, and does not mention a time limit to be in transit. If the time limit in transit were 90 days, it would not limit our cruise because at the end of our cruise we plan to return to US via France anyway. Although obtaining the visas required some effort to get them, we think it was well worth it. We appreciate all the helpful feedback we have received so far.
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By Kingsley.Ross - 27 Feb 2015
Great! What did you offer them for an address?
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By Northstar82 - 28 Feb 2015
I gave them the address where we will be commissioning for the season in St. Quay- Portrieux in Brittany. Again thanks for your advice and encouragement. Ted
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By Hasbun - 8 Apr 2015
We picked up our "long stay visas - visas without residency card" from the French consulate this morning.
We are grateful to Ted, Kingsley, and others who were instrumental in orienting us regarding the practicalities of securing these sorts of visas.
The employees at the consulate advised we may not enter France prior to the visa start date, which is June 15th (an arrival date we ourselves set).
Our health insurance had to explicitly state coverage until June 14th, 2016 or else the visa would have been shortened to the stated coverage expiration date, three months earlier. This may be meaningless for US persons who pay for insurance month to month anyway (so missed payments lapse the coverage, even if the contract states expiry far into the future), but it is not meaningless to the consuls. In the event, the consular officers generously accepted a letter that stated our coverage expiring February 2016 can optionally be extended for another year; but other applicants would be well advised to avoid relying on the generosity of consuls.
We presented a signed draft contract from a French marina for a full year. The contract had attached a "proforma" invoice showing the full balance as unpaid.
Any future applicants, please contact me for any further details.
Cheers,
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By DariaBlackwell - 6 Jun 2015
Your help is needed with this important Survey
OCC Member Kingsley Ross has created a survey to help gather data on the effect of the Visa restrictions on cruisers in the Schengen area. Please take a few moments to fill out the survey by following this link.
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By DariaBlackwell - 14 Jun 2015
As of 14 June 2015 we have 111 responses. This is a great response but more are needed to make the survey credible so if you haven 't completed it, please do. To date 61% of the respondents are still cruising Europe and 88% were required to leave Schengen countries earlier than they wanted because of visa restrictions.
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By DariaBlackwell - 16 Jun 2015
This discussion taken from the OCC Facebook page provides helpful information.
Felicity Critchlow
2 hrs
We are currently in Stavanger, Norway. This was our port of entry from Peterhead UK. The PO, Eoin Robson has been great and answered many of our questions. One thing which lead to confusion though was the official entry procedure. Not more than 5 minutes after we had tied up at the Oil Museum, two very friendly customs officials arrived. They had been tracking us on AIS at the airport, about 15 km away. They glanced at our passports and asked a few friendly questions and we 're done. Being a little concerned about the informality, we asked about stamps in our passports to validate our stay in Schengen. They told us that the police do stamps but it wasn 't a big deal and not to worry. Well, I worried because we were headed south to several other countries and feared that the attitude might not be so casual. We walked the couple of kilometres to the police station. After taking a number and asking about the stamp, the man at information had to go to the immigration department for an answer. No we don 't do that, maybe at the airport but I really don 't think it is necessary. Well for 144NOK we enjoyed the bus ride out to the airport. The helpful policewoman explained that yes, we had done the right thing. It was necessary to get a stamp in our passport as we entered Schengen territory. Yes, we probably would have encountered a problem if anyone had checked. She also explained that while we do not have to check into each country, we do have to check out of the last Schengen country we leave, stopping the clock and perhaps leaving us days to come back if we had not used all 90 days. This may not be news to more experienced cruisers but we found it confusing trying to find answers. Apparently this is confusion about the police is only in places where there is an airport, Otherwise the local force takes care of it assuming it is an official port of entry.
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Eoin Robson The difference is that when you arrive from a non-Schengen EU country (currently only Ireland and the UK) by commercial air or sea transport to a Schengen country, the passport is inspected by the police visually but not stamped (assuming you 're an EU/EEA citizen).
45 mins · Edited · Like
Pete Jobson Thanks for the clarification Eion. I wonder how many people must be flouting this rule through ignorance? Certainly me!
53 mins · Like · 1
Eoin Robson I could confuse you even more Pete, if I explain that Norway is in the EEA, is in the Schengen and not in the EU. This means your passport is not inspected by the police when arriving in Norway from the EU (except when arriving from UK/Ireland), but nonetheless you must go through customs (be it through red or green). Iceland is the only other country that falls in this category.
48 mins · Edited · Like · 1
Eoin Robson Referring to "flouting the rule by ignorance," I guess it would be difficult for the Schengen authorities to prove that you did not get your passport checked if you arrived in France (Schengen area) by your boat from the U.K. because EU passports are n...See More
June 16 at 5:16pm · Like
Daria Blackwell Felicity Critchlow, have you filled in the Schengen survey? It would be helpful if you have not yet. I am also copying this discussion onto the Forum so we don 't lose it.
June 16 at 5:29pm · Like
Kingsley Ross I had a similar experience last summer on the way up the Rhine (to the Black Sea via the Danube). Knowing I needed a stamp since since Hungarian would likely look for one as we cked out of Schengen, we had to go to an airport to get it. It cost 100€ by taxi but the Hungarians did look for so it was money well spent.
June 16 at 6:25pm · Edited · Like
Gus Wilson We were first told in Norway we did not have to do anything re chekcing in, other than a phone call when getting close to Tanager. The guy on the phone asked what size our boat was, and when told, said you are too smal lfor us to worry about. Welcome t...See More
June 16 at 10:53pm · Like · 1
Eoin Robson Presumably you were in Stavanger too Gus at one point? I 'm guessing as you mentioned Tananger (the nearby port).
June 16 at 11:05pm · Edited · Like
Niki Phillips Have fun in Norway Felicity Critchlow; we hope to follow in your wake next year
23 hrs · Like · 1
Felicity Critchlow Daria Blackwell yes I have filled in the survey. I hope it will make some impact. Gus Wilson I agree that most officials don 't seem to care. The police officer at the airport indicated that the area served by the airport, including Tanager I would thin...See More
16 hrs · Unlike · 1
Eoin Robson Yes, when we fly from Norway (a non-EU Schengen country) to Denmark (an EU Schengen country), we must clear customs but our passports are not checked. In principle we are allowed to go through the Schengen without our passports. Only Norway and Iceland are non-EU Schengen countries.
15 hrs · Like
Gus Wilson Felicity Critchlow I suspect you will have an equally hard time finding anyone in Sweden to clear you in customs. First time coming from Norway, we went to the ferry terminal and had them stamp a paper someone had given us, and our ship 's papers. But ti took two trips to the ferrry terminal, separated by an hour in the police station with friendly policemen who made calls to figure out if we needed to do anything, and the answere was no. But that year we wanted documentation of when we returned to the EU, and finally the person at the counter in the ferry terminal shrugged her shoulders, and said sure.
2 hrs · Like · 1
Daria Blackwell Good luck finding a customs/immigration agent in Ireland (EU non-Schengen). The Garda (police) handle immigration but only on a part time basis. Westport, for example, has an agent here once a week. Customs, though listed officially in Westport, is in Castlebar, 30 miles inland. It hasn 't been in Westport since the turn of the century. That 's why we 've just written a book, Cruising the Wild Atlantic Way, which explains all this about sailing in Ireland.
There is a new EU funded initiative called the #EUCoolRoute that is just getting off the ground. It is to develop a cruising route from Cork in Ireland to Norway. I am involved in it accidentally because of the book but I think the OCC can play a major role, and this EUCoolRoute may be a way to push through a long-term travel visa. I have just emailed the contact information of the people involved in Norway to the POs up there. I am in touch with the core organizer in Cork. I will take it up with him. If we can show that it is economically critical to lift travel restrictions to make the CoolRoute viable, then we will have an EU economic initiative behind it.
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By Hasbun - 8 Oct 2017
[quote=Kingsley Ross]Ted - while it is not on your radar we just received our Italian Type D visas via the Miami consulate. It only about a week for them to issue it. They had no problem with us living on our boat.[/quote]
I would like to report that U.S. acquaintances had their "elective residence" Italian application locally denied this week because authorities in Italy did not find a marina address as suitable for this type of application.
I do not know if what our acquaintances call Italian "elective residence" is equivalent a French Type D Long Term Schengen Visa good for one year that we first obtained at the French consulate in the U.S. and then "confirmed" on arrival in France through a process involving the local immigration ministry.
edited by Hasbun on 10/8/2017
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By David.Frost - 25 Oct 2017
Hello all and thank you for this discussion. I am following with interest.
We arrived in Ireland after an Atlantic passage in 2016. Cruised the south coast and then wintered the boat in Netherlands. We returned to Australia for 5 months.
This season April to July we rushed round madly trying to see Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, Sweden and Norway before finally bolting to Shetland to get out of Schengen within the 3 months allowed.
Now we are cooling our heels in the UK for 3 months to before we can return to Belgium, where we will do the 3 months we are allowed then we bolt to the Netherlands.
I have confirmation from the Dutch Consulate that Australians are allowed 3 months in Netherlands upon entry not withstanding time spend in other Schengen areas. You may not arrive in Netherlands at any time previous to this or the 3 months will start ticking and does not stop.. So when we are done in Belgium we go to Netherlands but may not enter any other Schengen areas in this time because technically our Schengen visa is expired.
This agreement with Australia pre dated Schengen and the Dutch seem to be the only country still honouring this agreement.
The UK only allow 6 months in any 12 and we don't want to use our next 3 months because we need to get out of Schengen again in April and wait 3 months to go back and cross Biscay.
How complicated can it get. Plenty of people say just ignore it but its just to stressful wondering if the next uniformed officer on the dock is coming to your boat to deport you or worse.
I am very interested to know if there has been any progress on the Touring Visia discussed in this thread earlier.
cheers all and thanks
Taipan
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By Hasbun - 1 Nov 2017
Hello David,
Assuming everything looks alright, a non-visa-required foreigner is usually granted leave to stay of 6 months in the UK on initial arrival.
However, when we arrived in the Isles of Scilly in 2015 and called the National Yachtline to report our arrival, we were granted admission in the UK and yet our passports were not stamped. So, if one does not have evidence of how long one's leave of stay is, how can one substantiate the legality of one's stay? We only stayed in the UK for a few days before sailing for Brest.
Did you get stamps on your passport when you arrived in Shetland? How long is your leave of stay?
Cheers,
OH
At anchor, Marmaris
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By Dick - 1 Nov 2017
Hi OH and David,
I was in and out of the UK for 5+ years (US flag) and used the hotline most every time. They would sometimes send someone to visit us personally, sometimes we had to request it as we preferred to get the actual stamp in our passports that we had cleared out of Schengen visa territory. (I assumed they kept records that would pop up if there was the need to track us in the future and we had finessed the actual stamp-getting.) They were always very accommodating and for the 3 years we wintered over on St. Katherine Docks, they came to us, as we called in from anchorages. As for Shetland, we did not use the hotline as the port Authorities would call immigration/customs, a very pleasant official who would come to the boat. The UK with its 6 month visa and the UK being not a part of Schengen played a huge part in allowing any reasonable cruising of Northern Europe. This is aside from being wonderful cruising grounds itself.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
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By Hasbun - 2 Nov 2017
Well, hello Dick!
I'd love to hear your comments on your stays in the UK, as we are going to be wintering at St Katharine's as well. We stay aboard year-round and usually don't go home (people come and visit us).
So, what are your thoughts on the British issuances of leave of stay? David Frost is of the opinion the Brits follow a strict 180 days max stay in 360 day period rule.
I, on the contrary, believe they don't want us to establish residence and certainly will be extremely strict and severely punish leave of stay overstayers, and certainly scrutinize entries and eventually deny admittance to people who come in repeatedly for lengthy periods, as they rightly should, but I don't think they are counting 180 days across separate entries.
What do you think, based on your experience?
OH
edited by Hasbun on 11/2/2017
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By Dick - 2 Nov 2017
Hi OH,
As said earlier, we were in and out of the UK over 5+ years and deeply appreciated the ability to be out of Schengen and to stay for 6 months. We were quite respectful of the UK’s rules and never explored any status that would allow us to stay longer than 6 months as we always flew home mid-winter for a couple of weeks and, even when sailing UK waters, managed to get across the channel for a while every summer.
We know of one Aussie who, when he returned to the UK, had it discovered that he had been in the UK more than 6 months when he had departed a few weeks earlier and he was denied entry and returned home for 3 months. We were never inconvenienced but were told sternly at one airport return that we had primarily been in European and UK territories for a long time and we should consider a new visa. We did nothing and continued in and out without further comment for 2-3 more years.
My experience is that UK officials take their rules seriously. That said, I believe port officials operating out of the Hotline understand our particular travel plans/history better and that airport/large ferry immigration officials are the most rigorous and least likely to cut any slack (makes sense, how many cruisers can they encounter and our passport history has got to be unusual and unusual = suspicious). That said, at any time one can draw an official who has gotten up on the wrong side of the bed.
I have no info on Leaves of Stay and have not heard of same. I have personal contacts that can facilitate your stay at SKD a great deal and will likely have more informed answers than I which I will send you if you contact me off-line.
I hope this helps, My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
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By Hasbun - 2 Nov 2017
Hello, Dick,
Yes, we are agreed anyone overstaying beyond the standard 6 month "leave of stay" (which is what the Brits call the everyday permission to enter), like the unfortunate Aussie, should expect no flexibility at all.
The rules are crystal clear: one cannot overstay even one day beyond the day for which leave has been granted. The penalties are severe.
The question is different. Are they counting days across separate trips and calculating a 180 day maximum?
For example, you arrive 1 January and stay until 30 April (4 months).
You leave.
You arrive back 1 October. You attempt to leave 25 December (2 months, 3 weeks).
You have now stayed 6 months + 3 weeks in one 360 day period.
This is calculated at your point of departure, with the following consequence:
===> You are deported on 25 December and banned from visiting the UK for 10 years <===
This is the proposed scenario. Does not look right.
Cheerio,
edited by Hasbun on 11/2/2017
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By Dick - 2 Nov 2017
Hi OH,
Whenever we entered UK and got stamped, the stamp said “Leave to enter for 6 months, employment and recourse to public funds prohibited”. We never questioned that we could then stay in the UK for the next 6 months. We left and returned often and considered the clock started whenever we returned and received this stamp. We did not do what might be called “visa” runs: taking the train to Paris for the weekend for ex., and getting a new stamp upon return. We did not need to. The only time official eyebrows were raised was, as reported in the earlier post, an official commented that we had been in Europe a long time, but she was referring to Europe (including the UK) and not just to our time in the UK.
I would not want you to feel I have answered your question definitively, as I am no immigration lawyer, and I am clear that if an official wants to find transgressions, they will never have a difficult time of it. I answer from the shoes of one who has done a lot of traveling, tries to follow all the rules, but who also tries to keep a low profile and not gather any attention.
I hope I have answered your question. Come back if I have missed something.
My best, Dick
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By David.Frost - 3 Nov 2017
Hello Dick and thanks for the info.
Hasbun. We fully concur with Dick on the matter of 6 months entry in the UK as an Australian non visa holder . 6 Months entry was granted to us in Shetland by a visiting immigration official. (We emailed before we left Norway.)
We were also treated with every courtesy by Customs and Immigration when we were boarded in Dover Strait, and when we discovered we had not completed entry requirements properly on our entry into Ireland from Azores. We received inaccurate advice but kept a record of times and places at which we received that advice. They "fixed" the problem, supplied the proper paperwork and completed it all at their office forwarding copies by email as our printer was not working at the time. Above and beyond the call of duty!!
All in all the Uk is very straightforward and easy. With 6 months in 12 being the accepted rule.
The Schengen countries are the real issue with 90 days during any 180 day period being the rule.
There seem to be a lot of misunderstandings, both by travellers and officials, and rule breakers as a consequence of the apparent fluidity of the application of the rules.
Then I read with interest the problem Destiny has just encountered in Greenland. Its not even Schengen and they seem to be applying the 90 days in any 180 days in Scandic Countries (this includes Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Faroe and Iceland) rule there too.
We are, as Australians, able to take advantage of a separate agreement between Australia and the Netherlands which permits us to stay in the Netherlands for 90 days after our Schengen period of 90 days expires, so long as we have not entered Netherlands during that period. (This would start their clock)
It is all very confusing and requires a lot of close clock watching to remain strictly legal.
Good luck
Kris n David
[quote=Hasbun]Hello David,
Assuming everything looks alright, a non-visa-required foreigner is usually granted leave to stay of 6 months in the UK on initial arrival.
However, when we arrived in the Isles of Scilly in 2015 and called the National Yachtline to report our arrival, we were granted admission in the UK and yet our passports were not stamped. So, if one does not have evidence of how long one's leave of stay is, how can one substantiate the legality of one's stay? We only stayed in the UK for a few days before sailing for Brest.
Did you get stamps on your passport when you arrived in Shetland? How long is your leave of stay?
Cheers,
OH
At anchor, Marmaris[/quote]
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By Hasbun - 3 Nov 2017
Hello David,
I am not convinced a 6 months in 12 accepted rule exists in the UK. I do believe frequent visitors who stay lengthy periods (within their approved leave to stay) will be subject to increased scrutiny upon further entry applications, and probably at some point subjected to issuance of abbreviated leaves to stay or flat out denied further entry. Certainly anyone engaging in so-called "visa runs" will be detected and probably banished for 1 to 10 years from further admittance into the UK.
But I don't think anyone will be penalized for staying the number of days that their stamp reads.
On another subject, the Greenland situation may arise as a result of the Nordic Passport Union (NPU) agreements. Another possible byproduct of the NPU is the following:
[ul][li]Citizens of certain countries are entitled to stay in Denmark for 90 days, [color=rgb(48, 73, 95)][font=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]regardless of stays in other Schengen countries[/font][/color]
[color=rgb(48, 73, 95)][font=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Citizens of Australia, Canada, Chile, Israel, Japan, Malaysia, New Zealand, Singapore, South Korea and the US can freely enter and stay in Denmark for up to 90 days in any 180-day period, regardless of whether they have stayed in another Schengen country prior to entry into Denmark. The 90 days are counted from the entry date into Denmark or another Nordic country. If you have previously spent time in Denmark or another Nordic country within the previous 180 days, that time will be deducted from the 90-day maximum.[/font][/color][/li][/ul]
[ul][li]Source: Danish Immigration Service - [/li][li]https://www.nyidanmark.dk/en-us/coming_to_dk/visa/Visa_free_travel.htm[/li][/ul]
So you see, the Danish (like the Dutch) allow you an extra 90 days beyond Schengen, but for the purposes of determining "how long you have been in Denmark", they consider the territory of Denmark to include all Nordic countries, and quite probably the Faroes and Greenland as well.
Cheers,
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By juanona - 1 Jan 2018
Hi Hasbun, thank you for pointing out the Danish 90-day allowance regardless of stays in other (non-Nordic) Schengen Countries. You mentioned that this applies to the Netherlands as well (“So you see, the Danish (like the Dutch) allow you an extra 90 days beyond Schengen...”)
I tried to find confirmation of this on the Netherland’s IND website, but have so far not been able to find anything that references this exception/extension to the 90 days. I frequently get asked about these issues, so would like to keep myself up to date. If possible could you share a link where I might find this?
I am living in the Netherlands with temporary residence under the “Dutch American Friendship Treaty” and occasionally get asked about these issues, so would like to keep up to date.
Many thanks and Happy New Year.
Max
edited by juanona on 1/1/2018
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By Hasbun - 2 Jan 2018
Hello Max,
I know nothing of the Dutch allowance for Australians. While it may work for Aussies, I am pretty certain it does not apply to U.S. passport holders at all.
I was merely commenting on David Frost's post, who wrote, among other things: «[font=sans-serif]We are, as Australians, able to take advantage of a separate agreement between Australia and the Netherlands which permits us to stay in the Netherlands for 90 days after our Schengen period of 90 days expires, so long as we have not entered Netherlands during that period.[/font]»
David further wrote on an earlier post: «[font=sans-serif]I have confirmation from the Dutch Consulate that Australians are allowed 3 months in Netherlands upon entry not withstanding time spend in other Schengen areas. You may not arrive in Netherlands at any time previous to this or the 3 months will start ticking and does not stop.. So when we are done in Belgium we go to Netherlands but may not enter any other Schengen areas in this time because technically our Schengen visa is expired.[/font]»
By the way, the Danish 90-day extension is mirrored by Norwegian regulation, which makes perfect sense, when you think about the text of the Danish regulation I quoted. I can supply the source for the Norwegian law, if anyone is interested.
Best,
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By juanona - 2 Jan 2018
Thank you for the clarification, Hasbun. If you could provide a link to the Norway law with the extension, I would appreciate it. I tried to find it but the page I found seems not to have the same exception as Denmark does. Thank you very much. Max
Link to what I found:
https://www.udi.no/en/want-to-apply/visit-and-holiday/to-visit-norway-without-a-visa/
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By Hasbun - 2 Jan 2018
The laws are here in Norwegian:
1. The regulation itself. Section 1 discusses why Norway must make certain exceptions to the 90 in 180 days hard limit. Section 2.1 clarifies that these certain exceptions means applicable people can stay more than the 90 day Schengen limit. The final paragraph notes that stays in any Nordic country counts towards the extra 90 days (i.e., mirrors the Danish regs)
https://www.udiregelverk.no/en/documents/udi-circulars/rs-2010-080/#attachment
2. The last line in the regulation calls out to the list of applicable countries. Here is the list, which includes a bunch of American countries, all the way from Canada to Argentina, plus a number of Asian countries such as South Korea and Israel, plus Australia and NZ:
https://www.udiregelverk.no/en/documents/udi-circulars/rs-2010-080/rs-2010-080v/
The way this actually works is as follows: write an e-mail to UDI in English (their address is on their website). Cite the webpages above and your nationality. They will respond quite rapidly that yes, you can stay 90 extra days in Norway, but that if you go from Norway to any other Schengen country, you are in for a world of hurt, i.e., after your extra days, you need to take a direct flight or boat Oslo-US, Oslo-Bahrain, or Oslo-London.
You should also keep that e-mail with you because most Norwegian police logically don't know the rules and their first instinct will be to apprehend you if they catch you after the 90 day Schengen limit.
Most recent known e-mail received from UDI as described: 11/Sep/2017
Regards,
edited by Hasbun on 1/3/2018
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By juanona - 3 Jan 2018
Thank you very much Hasbun. That could be very helpful to say a US citizen who winters their boat in the UK. They could cruise to the Netherlands, Germany, Poland, Estonia, and Sweden for up to 90 days, then cruise Denmark and Norway for another 90 days before returning to England.
Best regards, Max
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By DariaBlackwell - 9 Mar 2019
Americans to Apply for EU Travel Authorization starting 2021
US citizens will have to apply for an ETIAS prior to their travel towards Europe, in order to be allowed to enter the territory, starting January 1, 2021.
[color=#4d4b4d]
[/color]
[color=#4d4b4d]CNN article explains why. [/color]
[color=#4d4b4d]
[/color]
edited by DariaBlackwell on 3/9/2019
edited by DariaBlackwell on 3/9/2019
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By DariaBlackwell - 6 Jun 2020
+xAmericans to Apply for EU Travel Authorization starting 2021 US citizens will have to apply for an ETIAS prior to their travel towards Europe, in order to be allowed to enter the territory, starting January 1, 2021.[color=#4d4b4d][/color] CNN article explains why. edited by DariaBlackwell on 3/9/2019
ETIAS will not be mandatory until 2023. (as of March 2020)
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/etias-wont-be-mandatory-until-2023-official-sources-confirm/
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By DariaBlackwell - 12 Jun 2020
Addendum discussion from Facebook 12-06-2020:
SV Kestrel
14 hrs
We are US citizens who live aboard our sailboat full time and are currently in Grenada. Our pre-COVID plan had been to go through the Panama Canal and head west into the Pacific. However, with the current uncertainty, we are now strongly considering spending the winter in the Caribbean and then heading east instead to Europe and the UK in May once COVID restrictions have lifted (assuming they have).
As US citizens, our travel in Europe is complicated by Schengen limitations and creates a real dilemma. We are not interested in crossing the Atlantic twice in one year year. Instead, we'd like to head from the Caribbean in the spring, travel throughout northern Europe in the summer and fall, and overwinter in the UK. We'd then like to travel south from UK the next spring and return to the Caribbean by way of the Canaries in the standard November time frame. Essentially this works out to a year-and-a-half journey. We don't have a great interest in the Med, although once we leave the UK after overwintering we can spend time in the Med as necessary.
Has any US citizen done something similar? If so, how did you do it? Did you get an extension to your stay; did you get a long stay visa from an EU country? We can only stay in the UK for 6 months out of every 12 months, so spending more than a winter there isn't really a possibility. Sailing for 90 days and then flying out of the EU for 90 days, leaving the boat behind, isn't an option for us.
Thank you, brain trust. We'd really like to make this work if we can.
10You, Frances Rennie, Gus Wilson and 7 others
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Daria Blackwell
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Barbara Arden Lockwood Johnston
Barbara Arden Lockwood Johnston We discovered, after the fact, that most, if not all of the Scandinavian countries will give you an additional 90 days after your initial Schengen allotment runs out. I think it's limited to only one country, but check the immigration websites of thos…See More
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Odette Hasbun
Odette Hasbun The Scandi extension gives you an extra 90 days beyond Schengen... but not an extra 90 beyond Scandinavia itself. So if you spend 90 days in Sweden and then go to Denmark, Denmark will issue you zero additional days. However if you spend 90 days in Germany and then go to Denmark, Denmark will give you an extra 90 days.
At the end of the extra Scandinavian 90, you cannot go back to Schengen, because country extensions (exceptions to Schengen) are _not_ recognized by other Schengen countries. So if you went back to Germany, the Germans would simply see you as having just overstayed by 90 days.
Sailingwise, therefore, after the extra Scandi 90, your only options are UK, Ireland, or Russia, where Russia is unlikely to work as a Schengen wait-out period. Flightwise, you can take any plane to a third country, so long as it does not stop anywhere in Schengen.
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Geir Ove Bø
Geir Ove Bø europa is opening up now, in June. changeing nearly every day now.
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Pam MellonActive Now
Pam Mellon You can go to non Schengen places like Ireland.
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Daria Blackwell
Daria Blackwell Check out the Schengen thread on the OCC Forum.
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SV Kestrel
SV Kestrel Thanks, Daria, just read the thread.
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Daria Blackwell
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Gus Wilson
Gus Wilson Check your messages. I just sent one about this.
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Lars Hellman
Lars Hellman A detour to Norway (not EU) will also give you an additional 90 days when you sail back into EU. Besides, Norway is an absolutely gorgeous cruising ground if you can leave the Caribbean heat behind for a while. You will never forget it.
Sea Wind
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Neil McCubbin
Neil McCubbin Lars Hellman Agreed, Norway is great cruising
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Odette Hasbun
Odette Hasbun Unfortunately it is not true that you can sail back to Schengen after a Norwegian extension.
The primary problem is that in-country extensions (i.e., Schengen national exceptions) are not recognized by other Schengen countries, so the next country will simply see you as having overstayed your Schengen welcome by 90 days.
The secondary problem is one of logistics. Say you stamped into Schengen in France, went into Norway, got an extension stamp from UDI, and wanted to leave Norway straight for the Netherlands. When you go to the police station at, say, Haugesund and ask to be stamped out of Schengen, they will ask, where are you going? When you answer Amsterdam, they will most likely deny you a Schengen departure stamp... because you are going from Norway (Schengen) to Netherlands (Schengen). So the clock never stops. And when you get to Amsterdam, you cannot re-stamp into Schengen because you are already "in" since your original French stamp. You simply never left, and the clock has been running all this time.
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Nigel Collin Studdart
Nigel Collin Studdart I would second Norway it’s absolutely stunning and well worth a whole summer . The fjords are spectacular as are the towns . You can then head across to southern island and then Scotland and play the Eu game as it eventuates followed by a trip to Galicia in NW Spain which is also absolutely stunning
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Odette Hasbun
Odette Hasbun Yes, that works. Departing Norway, you get six months in the UK. Properly departing the UK and arriving in the Republic of Ireland, you can get an additional 90 Irish days which are not Schengen.
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Kitty Cullina-Bessey
Kitty Cullina-Bessey Following
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Kjell Dreyer
Kjell Dreyer But be aware that Norway is not part of EU (only EEA) it is part of Schengen....
But a nice trip is up to Scotland, through the Caledonian canal, and then about 300 nm east over to Stavanger and then down south Norway, over to Skagen in Denmark and further down south including Copenhagen and eventually the Kiel canal... enjoy 😀
1
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Lea Obermeyer
Lea Obermeyer Kjell Dreyer absolutely correct. We would love to have spent some time in Norway but it is strangely part of the schengen.
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Odette Hasbun
Odette Hasbun Last summer we departed the Shetland islands, checked into Norway at Haugesund, traveled down the coast through Avaldsnes, Stavanger, the Lysefjord into Lysebotn, Brusand, Vestre Hua, and departed Norway from Mandal.
Entering Denmark at Thyborøn, we v…See More
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Peter Whatley
Peter Whatley Good question Kestrel. Good comments OCC
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Judith L. Jacobsen
Judith L. Jacobsen Don’t miss Norway if you come to Europe ❤️
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Dennis K. Biby
Dennis K. Biby I've puzzled over this for a couple of years. The UK is not in Schengen so 6 months (180 days) will restart your 90 day Schengen cruise. In my planning I would hit Schengen perhaps in mid-July then hop to Morocco for 30 of so days then back across the Atlantic.
Two crossings in one year but with your plan to stay in UK, could be two years.
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Peter Dunham
Peter Dunham We had also planned pacific pre-covid but that is on hold. The med has a huge amount to offer, don’t skip it. Greece alone has some fabulous destinations and amazing culture. Ok, there is no marine life to speak of but places like Delphi, epidaurus, hydra etc have been real global highlights.
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Lea Obermeyer
Lea Obermeyer Gibraltar is nonSchengen which is where we reset the Schengen clock. Some Spanish ports near Gibraltar may choose not to recognize it as nonSchengen but every other country does and all the other ports of Spain it is not a problem. Portugal use to be easy to get an extension that allows you to stay within their borders past Schengen time so you would still need to go to a nonSchengen area after.
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Victor Langerwerf
Victor Langerwerf Use Gibraltar, Marocco, Algeria, Albania, Turkey as non EU countries when crossing the Med!
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Kathleen McCallum
Kathleen McCallum Turkey sailing is fabulous. You could bounce back and forth for years. I am planning to ship my boat over in 2021 and sail Greece, Turkey and Croatia.
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Odette Hasbun
Odette Hasbun "We can only stay in the UK for 6 months out of every 12 months". This is not true. The UK does not count days.
Please consider the file available at:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/visit-guidance
This is the "UK Home Office Visit Guidance manual"
On page 18, you will find the following statement:
« There is no specified maximum period which an individual can spend in the UK in any period such as ‘6 months in 12 months’. »
Of course, Border Force will take a very dim view of any yachtsmen abusing their welcome in Britain.
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Gus Wilson
Gus Wilson Odette, thanks for this. That has been the policy, but it has not been stated clearly in the past.
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Daria Blackwell
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Ian Park
Ian Park We went through Caledonian Canal last year but missed out Norway going through the Limfjord Canal in Denmark. Lovely trip.
And Hi to Odette who we met in Ireland!
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By Dick - 12 Jun 2020
+xAddendum discussion from Facebook 12-06-2020: SV Kestrel 14 hrs We are US citizens who live aboard our sailboat full time and are currently in Grenada. Our pre-COVID plan had been to go through the Panama Canal and head west into the Pacific. However, with the current uncertainty, we are now strongly considering spending the winter in the Caribbean and then heading east instead to Europe and the UK in May once COVID restrictions have lifted (assuming they have). As US citizens, our travel in Europe is complicated by Schengen limitations and creates a real dilemma. We are not interested in crossing the Atlantic twice in one year year. Instead, we'd like to head from the Caribbean in the spring, travel throughout northern Europe in the summer and fall, and overwinter in the UK. We'd then like to travel south from UK the next spring and return to the Caribbean by way of the Canaries in the standard November time frame. Essentially this works out to a year-and-a-half journey. We don't have a great interest in the Med, although once we leave the UK after overwintering we can spend time in the Med as necessary. Has any US citizen done something similar? If so, how did you do it? Did you get an extension to your stay; did you get a long stay visa from an EU country? We can only stay in the UK for 6 months out of every 12 months, so spending more than a winter there isn't really a possibility. Sailing for 90 days and then flying out of the EU for 90 days, leaving the boat behind, isn't an option for us. Thank you, brain trust. We'd really like to make this work if we can. 10You, Frances Rennie, Gus Wilson and 7 others 27 Comments Daria Blackwell Like Comment Comments Barbara Arden Lockwood Johnston Barbara Arden Lockwood Johnston We discovered, after the fact, that most, if not all of the Scandinavian countries will give you an additional 90 days after your initial Schengen allotment runs out. I think it's limited to only one country, but check the immigration websites of thos…See More Hide or report this Storms and Friends SAILBLOGS.COM Storms and Friends Storms and Friends 1 Like · Reply · 14h · Edited Odette Hasbun Odette Hasbun The Scandi extension gives you an extra 90 days beyond Schengen... but not an extra 90 beyond Scandinavia itself. So if you spend 90 days in Sweden and then go to Denmark, Denmark will issue you zero additional days. However if you spend 90 days in Germany and then go to Denmark, Denmark will give you an extra 90 days. At the end of the extra Scandinavian 90, you cannot go back to Schengen, because country extensions (exceptions to Schengen) are _not_ recognized by other Schengen countries. So if you went back to Germany, the Germans would simply see you as having just overstayed by 90 days. Sailingwise, therefore, after the extra Scandi 90, your only options are UK, Ireland, or Russia, where Russia is unlikely to work as a Schengen wait-out period. Flightwise, you can take any plane to a third country, so long as it does not stop anywhere in Schengen. 2 Hide or report this Like · Reply · 4h Geir Ove Bø Geir Ove Bø europa is opening up now, in June. changeing nearly every day now. Hide or report this Like · Reply · 14h Pam MellonActive Now Pam Mellon You can go to non Schengen places like Ireland. Hide or report this Like · Reply · 14h Daria Blackwell Daria Blackwell Check out the Schengen thread on the OCC Forum. Edit or delete this Like · Reply · 13h SV Kestrel SV Kestrel Thanks, Daria, just read the thread. Hide or report this Like · Reply · 11h Daria Blackwell Write a reply... Gus Wilson Gus Wilson Check your messages. I just sent one about this. 1 Hide or report this Like · Reply · 13h Lars Hellman Lars Hellman A detour to Norway (not EU) will also give you an additional 90 days when you sail back into EU. Besides, Norway is an absolutely gorgeous cruising ground if you can leave the Caribbean heat behind for a while. You will never forget it. Sea Wind Hide or report this Image may contain: outdoor, water and nature 7 Like · Reply · 13h · Edited Neil McCubbin Neil McCubbin Lars Hellman Agreed, Norway is great cruising Hide or report this Like · Reply · 9h Odette Hasbun Odette Hasbun Unfortunately it is not true that you can sail back to Schengen after a Norwegian extension. The primary problem is that in-country extensions (i.e., Schengen national exceptions) are not recognized by other Schengen countries, so the next country will simply see you as having overstayed your Schengen welcome by 90 days. The secondary problem is one of logistics. Say you stamped into Schengen in France, went into Norway, got an extension stamp from UDI, and wanted to leave Norway straight for the Netherlands. When you go to the police station at, say, Haugesund and ask to be stamped out of Schengen, they will ask, where are you going? When you answer Amsterdam, they will most likely deny you a Schengen departure stamp... because you are going from Norway (Schengen) to Netherlands (Schengen). So the clock never stops. And when you get to Amsterdam, you cannot re-stamp into Schengen because you are already "in" since your original French stamp. You simply never left, and the clock has been running all this time. 2 Hide or report this Like · Reply · 4h · Edited View 1 more reply Nigel Collin Studdart Nigel Collin Studdart I would second Norway it’s absolutely stunning and well worth a whole summer . The fjords are spectacular as are the towns . You can then head across to southern island and then Scotland and play the Eu game as it eventuates followed by a trip to Galicia in NW Spain which is also absolutely stunning 2 Hide or report this Like · Reply · 13h Odette Hasbun Odette Hasbun Yes, that works. Departing Norway, you get six months in the UK. Properly departing the UK and arriving in the Republic of Ireland, you can get an additional 90 Irish days which are not Schengen. Hide or report this Like · Reply · 4h · Edited Kitty Cullina-Bessey Kitty Cullina-Bessey Following Hide or report this Like · Reply · 13h Kjell Dreyer Kjell Dreyer But be aware that Norway is not part of EU (only EEA) it is part of Schengen.... But a nice trip is up to Scotland, through the Caledonian canal, and then about 300 nm east over to Stavanger and then down south Norway, over to Skagen in Denmark and further down south including Copenhagen and eventually the Kiel canal... enjoy 😀 1 Hide or report this Like · Reply · 13h Lea Obermeyer Lea Obermeyer Kjell Dreyer absolutely correct. We would love to have spent some time in Norway but it is strangely part of the schengen. 1 Hide or report this Like · Reply · 12h · Edited Odette Hasbun Odette Hasbun Last summer we departed the Shetland islands, checked into Norway at Haugesund, traveled down the coast through Avaldsnes, Stavanger, the Lysefjord into Lysebotn, Brusand, Vestre Hua, and departed Norway from Mandal. Entering Denmark at Thyborøn, we v…See More Hide or report this Like · Reply · 3h Peter Whatley Peter Whatley Good question Kestrel. Good comments OCC Hide or report this Like · Reply · 13h Judith L. Jacobsen Judith L. Jacobsen Don’t miss Norway if you come to Europe ❤️ 1 Hide or report this Like · Reply · 13h Dennis K. Biby Dennis K. Biby I've puzzled over this for a couple of years. The UK is not in Schengen so 6 months (180 days) will restart your 90 day Schengen cruise. In my planning I would hit Schengen perhaps in mid-July then hop to Morocco for 30 of so days then back across the Atlantic. Two crossings in one year but with your plan to stay in UK, could be two years. Hide or report this Like · Reply · 12h Peter Dunham Peter Dunham We had also planned pacific pre-covid but that is on hold. The med has a huge amount to offer, don’t skip it. Greece alone has some fabulous destinations and amazing culture. Ok, there is no marine life to speak of but places like Delphi, epidaurus, hydra etc have been real global highlights. 2 Hide or report this Like · Reply · 12h Lea Obermeyer Lea Obermeyer Gibraltar is nonSchengen which is where we reset the Schengen clock. Some Spanish ports near Gibraltar may choose not to recognize it as nonSchengen but every other country does and all the other ports of Spain it is not a problem. Portugal use to be easy to get an extension that allows you to stay within their borders past Schengen time so you would still need to go to a nonSchengen area after. Hide or report this Like · Reply · 12h Victor Langerwerf Victor Langerwerf Use Gibraltar, Marocco, Algeria, Albania, Turkey as non EU countries when crossing the Med! 4 Hide or report this Like · Reply · 12h Kathleen McCallum Kathleen McCallum Turkey sailing is fabulous. You could bounce back and forth for years. I am planning to ship my boat over in 2021 and sail Greece, Turkey and Croatia. 2 Hide or report this Like · Reply · 7h Odette Hasbun Odette Hasbun "We can only stay in the UK for 6 months out of every 12 months". This is not true. The UK does not count days. Please consider the file available at: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/visit-guidance This is the "UK Home Office Visit Guidance manual" On page 18, you will find the following statement: « There is no specified maximum period which an individual can spend in the UK in any period such as ‘6 months in 12 months’. » Of course, Border Force will take a very dim view of any yachtsmen abusing their welcome in Britain. Hide or report this Visit guidance GOV.UK Visit guidance Visit guidance 1 Like · Reply · 3h · Edited Gus Wilson Gus Wilson Odette, thanks for this. That has been the policy, but it has not been stated clearly in the past. Hide or report this Like · Reply · 2h Daria Blackwell Write a reply... ▲ Ian Park Ian Park We went through Caledonian Canal last year but missed out Norway going through the Limfjord Canal in Denmark. Lovely trip. And Hi to Odette who we met in Ireland!
Hi all,
I see this originated as a FB series. I do wish to respond, as it has found its way into the OCC Forum, but I would very much wish that none of my writing (on this stream of posts or any others) be copied and pasted and re-posted into FB. I could go into details why, if wished, but in the end, I would hope readers would just respect my wishes.
I am from the US and sailed our US flagged vessel in Europe (Med and Northern Europe) for just over 10 years. During that time, I had many hours of discussion about Schengen and I would venture to say, the subject came up with every not-EU boat we encountered. In the end it was certainly many hundreds of boats.
In that time, I know of 2 reports where boat crew was found to be in violation and faced consequences: one was the result of a moderately serious injury that kept the boat in place for an unexpected period of time (600 euro fines pp were spoken of even with the documenting of injury, but all was eventually-2 days- dropped with no fine or sanctions). The other was a couple who left the Schengen country for a couple of weeks only to have their return denied at the airport as they had over-stayed their 3 months/90 days even before leaving (as the boat was their home and in that country, after much discussion, they were allowed to go to their boat and leave forthwith, no fine).
I am not sure (and am curious) what the risk of Schengen violation really is as it has been actually applied.
Does anyone know the range of sanctions that could be applied? I am sure it is a range going right up to expulsion, but are there guidelines for officials that say, find someone 10 days over? How much is in the discretion of the officials involved?
And, I think it would be of interest to accumulate a “data bank” -so to say- of those instances where there were Schengen violations that came to the attention of the authorities: what were the repercussions (if any). Please make this real personal knowledge (yourself or someone you know and not boatyard scuttlebutt) and, for sure, do not use names (boat or otherwise). Try to include details: how much over-stayed, was the violation noticed by port authorities, ferry terminals, airports, other? If fined or otherwise sanctioned, was that it or did the fact that there was a violation follow the people into the future in their dealings with other officials in the same country? Other countries? And let’s stick with violations involving boats and their crew.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
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By Dick - 13 Jun 2020
+x+xAddendum discussion from Facebook 12-06-2020: SV Kestrel 14 hrs We are US citizens who live aboard our sailboat full time and are currently in Grenada. Our pre-COVID plan had been to go through the Panama Canal and head west into the Pacific. However, with the current uncertainty, we are now strongly considering spending the winter in the Caribbean and then heading east instead to Europe and the UK in May once COVID restrictions have lifted (assuming they have). As US citizens, our travel in Europe is complicated by Schengen limitations and creates a real dilemma. We are not interested in crossing the Atlantic twice in one year year. Instead, we'd like to head from the Caribbean in the spring, travel throughout northern Europe in the summer and fall, and overwinter in the UK. We'd then like to travel south from UK the next spring and return to the Caribbean by way of the Canaries in the standard November time frame. Essentially this works out to a year-and-a-half journey. We don't have a great interest in the Med, although once we leave the UK after overwintering we can spend time in the Med as necessary. Has any US citizen done something similar? If so, how did you do it? Did you get an extension to your stay; did you get a long stay visa from an EU country? We can only stay in the UK for 6 months out of every 12 months, so spending more than a winter there isn't really a possibility. Sailing for 90 days and then flying out of the EU for 90 days, leaving the boat behind, isn't an option for us. Thank you, brain trust. We'd really like to make this work if we can. 10You, Frances Rennie, Gus Wilson and 7 others 27 Comments Daria Blackwell Like Comment Comments Barbara Arden Lockwood Johnston Barbara Arden Lockwood Johnston We discovered, after the fact, that most, if not all of the Scandinavian countries will give you an additional 90 days after your initial Schengen allotment runs out. I think it's limited to only one country, but check the immigration websites of thos…See More Hide or report this Storms and Friends SAILBLOGS.COM Storms and Friends Storms and Friends 1 Like · Reply · 14h · Edited Odette Hasbun Odette Hasbun The Scandi extension gives you an extra 90 days beyond Schengen... but not an extra 90 beyond Scandinavia itself. So if you spend 90 days in Sweden and then go to Denmark, Denmark will issue you zero additional days. However if you spend 90 days in Germany and then go to Denmark, Denmark will give you an extra 90 days. At the end of the extra Scandinavian 90, you cannot go back to Schengen, because country extensions (exceptions to Schengen) are _not_ recognized by other Schengen countries. So if you went back to Germany, the Germans would simply see you as having just overstayed by 90 days. Sailingwise, therefore, after the extra Scandi 90, your only options are UK, Ireland, or Russia, where Russia is unlikely to work as a Schengen wait-out period. Flightwise, you can take any plane to a third country, so long as it does not stop anywhere in Schengen. 2 Hide or report this Like · Reply · 4h Geir Ove Bø Geir Ove Bø europa is opening up now, in June. changeing nearly every day now. Hide or report this Like · Reply · 14h Pam MellonActive Now Pam Mellon You can go to non Schengen places like Ireland. Hide or report this Like · Reply · 14h Daria Blackwell Daria Blackwell Check out the Schengen thread on the OCC Forum. Edit or delete this Like · Reply · 13h SV Kestrel SV Kestrel Thanks, Daria, just read the thread. Hide or report this Like · Reply · 11h Daria Blackwell Write a reply... Gus Wilson Gus Wilson Check your messages. I just sent one about this. 1 Hide or report this Like · Reply · 13h Lars Hellman Lars Hellman A detour to Norway (not EU) will also give you an additional 90 days when you sail back into EU. Besides, Norway is an absolutely gorgeous cruising ground if you can leave the Caribbean heat behind for a while. You will never forget it. Sea Wind Hide or report this Image may contain: outdoor, water and nature 7 Like · Reply · 13h · Edited Neil McCubbin Neil McCubbin Lars Hellman Agreed, Norway is great cruising Hide or report this Like · Reply · 9h Odette Hasbun Odette Hasbun Unfortunately it is not true that you can sail back to Schengen after a Norwegian extension. The primary problem is that in-country extensions (i.e., Schengen national exceptions) are not recognized by other Schengen countries, so the next country will simply see you as having overstayed your Schengen welcome by 90 days. The secondary problem is one of logistics. Say you stamped into Schengen in France, went into Norway, got an extension stamp from UDI, and wanted to leave Norway straight for the Netherlands. When you go to the police station at, say, Haugesund and ask to be stamped out of Schengen, they will ask, where are you going? When you answer Amsterdam, they will most likely deny you a Schengen departure stamp... because you are going from Norway (Schengen) to Netherlands (Schengen). So the clock never stops. And when you get to Amsterdam, you cannot re-stamp into Schengen because you are already "in" since your original French stamp. You simply never left, and the clock has been running all this time. 2 Hide or report this Like · Reply · 4h · Edited View 1 more reply Nigel Collin Studdart Nigel Collin Studdart I would second Norway it’s absolutely stunning and well worth a whole summer . The fjords are spectacular as are the towns . You can then head across to southern island and then Scotland and play the Eu game as it eventuates followed by a trip to Galicia in NW Spain which is also absolutely stunning 2 Hide or report this Like · Reply · 13h Odette Hasbun Odette Hasbun Yes, that works. Departing Norway, you get six months in the UK. Properly departing the UK and arriving in the Republic of Ireland, you can get an additional 90 Irish days which are not Schengen. Hide or report this Like · Reply · 4h · Edited Kitty Cullina-Bessey Kitty Cullina-Bessey Following Hide or report this Like · Reply · 13h Kjell Dreyer Kjell Dreyer But be aware that Norway is not part of EU (only EEA) it is part of Schengen.... But a nice trip is up to Scotland, through the Caledonian canal, and then about 300 nm east over to Stavanger and then down south Norway, over to Skagen in Denmark and further down south including Copenhagen and eventually the Kiel canal... enjoy 😀 1 Hide or report this Like · Reply · 13h Lea Obermeyer Lea Obermeyer Kjell Dreyer absolutely correct. We would love to have spent some time in Norway but it is strangely part of the schengen. 1 Hide or report this Like · Reply · 12h · Edited Odette Hasbun Odette Hasbun Last summer we departed the Shetland islands, checked into Norway at Haugesund, traveled down the coast through Avaldsnes, Stavanger, the Lysefjord into Lysebotn, Brusand, Vestre Hua, and departed Norway from Mandal. Entering Denmark at Thyborøn, we v…See More Hide or report this Like · Reply · 3h Peter Whatley Peter Whatley Good question Kestrel. Good comments OCC Hide or report this Like · Reply · 13h Judith L. Jacobsen Judith L. Jacobsen Don’t miss Norway if you come to Europe ❤️ 1 Hide or report this Like · Reply · 13h Dennis K. Biby Dennis K. Biby I've puzzled over this for a couple of years. The UK is not in Schengen so 6 months (180 days) will restart your 90 day Schengen cruise. In my planning I would hit Schengen perhaps in mid-July then hop to Morocco for 30 of so days then back across the Atlantic. Two crossings in one year but with your plan to stay in UK, could be two years. Hide or report this Like · Reply · 12h Peter Dunham Peter Dunham We had also planned pacific pre-covid but that is on hold. The med has a huge amount to offer, don’t skip it. Greece alone has some fabulous destinations and amazing culture. Ok, there is no marine life to speak of but places like Delphi, epidaurus, hydra etc have been real global highlights. 2 Hide or report this Like · Reply · 12h Lea Obermeyer Lea Obermeyer Gibraltar is nonSchengen which is where we reset the Schengen clock. Some Spanish ports near Gibraltar may choose not to recognize it as nonSchengen but every other country does and all the other ports of Spain it is not a problem. Portugal use to be easy to get an extension that allows you to stay within their borders past Schengen time so you would still need to go to a nonSchengen area after. Hide or report this Like · Reply · 12h Victor Langerwerf Victor Langerwerf Use Gibraltar, Marocco, Algeria, Albania, Turkey as non EU countries when crossing the Med! 4 Hide or report this Like · Reply · 12h Kathleen McCallum Kathleen McCallum Turkey sailing is fabulous. You could bounce back and forth for years. I am planning to ship my boat over in 2021 and sail Greece, Turkey and Croatia. 2 Hide or report this Like · Reply · 7h Odette Hasbun Odette Hasbun "We can only stay in the UK for 6 months out of every 12 months". This is not true. The UK does not count days. Please consider the file available at: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/visit-guidance This is the "UK Home Office Visit Guidance manual" On page 18, you will find the following statement: « There is no specified maximum period which an individual can spend in the UK in any period such as ‘6 months in 12 months’. » Of course, Border Force will take a very dim view of any yachtsmen abusing their welcome in Britain. Hide or report this Visit guidance GOV.UK Visit guidance Visit guidance 1 Like · Reply · 3h · Edited Gus Wilson Gus Wilson Odette, thanks for this. That has been the policy, but it has not been stated clearly in the past. Hide or report this Like · Reply · 2h Daria Blackwell Write a reply... ▲ Ian Park Ian Park We went through Caledonian Canal last year but missed out Norway going through the Limfjord Canal in Denmark. Lovely trip. And Hi to Odette who we met in Ireland! Hi all, I see this originated as a FB series. I do wish to respond, as it has found its way into the OCC Forum, but I would very much wish that none of my writing (on this stream of posts or any others) be copied and pasted and re-posted into FB. I could go into details why, if wished, but in the end, I would hope readers would just respect my wishes. I am from the US and sailed our US flagged vessel in Europe (Med and Northern Europe) for just over 10 years. During that time, I had many hours of discussion about Schengen and I would venture to say, the subject came up with every not-EU boat we encountered. In the end it was certainly many hundreds of boats. In that time, I know of 2 reports where boat crew was found to be in violation and faced consequences: one was the result of a moderately serious injury that kept the boat in place for an unexpected period of time (600 euro fines pp were spoken of even with the documenting of injury, but all was eventually-2 days- dropped with no fine or sanctions). The other was a couple who left the Schengen country for a couple of weeks only to have their return denied at the airport as they had over-stayed their 3 months/90 days even before leaving (as the boat was their home and in that country, after much discussion, they were allowed to go to their boat and leave forthwith, no fine). I am not sure (and am curious) what the risk of Schengen violation really is as it has been actually applied. Does anyone know the range of sanctions that could be applied? I am sure it is a range going right up to expulsion, but are there guidelines for officials that say, find someone 10 days over? How much is in the discretion of the officials involved? And, I think it would be of interest to accumulate a “data bank” -so to say- of those instances where there were Schengen violations that came to the attention of the authorities: what were the repercussions (if any). Please make this real personal knowledge (yourself or someone you know and not boatyard scuttlebutt) and, for sure, do not use names (boat or otherwise). Try to include details: how much over-stayed, was the violation noticed by port authorities, ferry terminals, airports, other? If fined or otherwise sanctioned, was that it or did the fact that there was a violation follow the people into the future in their dealings with other officials in the same country? Other countries? And let’s stick with violations involving boats and their crew. My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
Hi Kestral,
The below reflects the years from 2011-2017.
I see nothing to interfere with your plans as stated. We did roughly the same for the 6 years we based ourselves out of the UK (3 years full time live-aboards in London and 3 years leaving the boat in various locations for the winter when we returned to the US. During the live-aboard years we returned to the US for a few weeks each winter.
Every season we would leave for Schengen countries. Two seasons we spent our Schengen time in Norway over-wintering the boat in Lerwick, an easy over-night to the Shetland Islands. Another season we wandered for 7 months from London to St Petersburg and back to London.
We encountered no issues or concerns with UK officials and our experience was that many perused our passports in some detail as our passport stamps reflected an unusual pattern.
It may be on the books, but in our researches and experience, there was no mention of restricting stay in the UK to 6 months out of 12. And, of all the vessels/crew we hung with during our years in the UK I do not remember that restriction ever being mentioned. In probably 25+ times returning to the UK and checking in over the years, every time we received a stamp which stated directly that we were allowed to stay for 6 months from the date of entry.
We explored Schengen extensions and other options, but decided they were too much of a hassle to deal with (our time coincided with much immigration turmoil in Europe, so things might have shifted since then). Clearly some have been able to make the effort and succeed and some of these efforts are elsewhere reported in the Forum.
And, yes, there is no way we would have missed our 10+ years in the Med and in Northern Europe. They are just fabulous cruising grounds with a rich history that many cruising grounds are unable to match. To my mind, it is just tragic that rules such as we are discussing cause cruising vessels to stay away.
Again, please do not copy this comm and re-post elsewhere.
Come back with questions/thoughts etc.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
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By Hasbun - 16 Jun 2020
Denmark has changed the terms of their automatic extension above and beyond Schengen for certain nationalities.
For people from NZ and US, an excellent update: days spent elsewhere in Scandinavia no are no longer deducted! One should be able to do 90 days Schengen, 90 days Norway/Sweden (combined), and 90 days Denmark, strictly in that order, for an optimized maximum of up to
270 days before having to sail nonstop to Ireland, UK or Russia. Small new downside: any days spent in Denmark itself in the previous six months are now deducted. A big net win.
Malaysians, Chileans, Koreans, Australians, Canadians, Israelis, Japanese and Singaporeans, on the other hand, all get very slightly worse terms than before.
https://www.nyidanmark.dk/en-GB/Applying/Short%20stay%20visa/Visa%20free%20visits
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By bbalme - 17 Jun 2020
Dick,
Your cruising methodology is a bit simpler than some (including Kestrel's) - in that you traveled back to the US during the winter - opening up time-frames that some of us don't have - we live on our boats 100% of the time.
Kestrel does seem to have a solution - and they are certainly available - but getting more and more difficult as new countries join the EU and Schengen. The difficulty is that scheduling some of the time's out of Schengen requires travel when you might not want to travel (like the North Sea or Biscay in December) in order to meet a deadline.
Your question of 'has anyone actually been fined/penalized over the years' is a great one - and one that I wrote the jist of on the FB thread (I didn't mention you or copy your words). So far nobody has come through - and I suspect that Odette's information that the immigration concern (in the UK at least) is about trying to sneak residency - which we cruisers are not...
As a 100% liveaboard boat, currently in the UK, it's a worry for us... the penalties talked of (boat impoundment, etc) would be totally catastrophic to us if they happened to come to pass. Fingers crossed!
Cheers!
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By Dick - 17 Jun 2020
+xDick, Your cruising methodology is a bit simpler than some (including Kestrel's) - in that you traveled back to the US during the winter - opening up time-frames that some of us don't have - we live on our boats 100% of the time. Kestrel does seem to have a solution - and they are certainly available - but getting more and more difficult as new countries join the EU and Schengen. The difficulty is that scheduling some of the time's out of Schengen requires travel when you might not want to travel (like the North Sea or Biscay in December) in order to meet a deadline. Your question of 'has anyone actually been fined/penalized over the years' is a great one - and one that I wrote the jist of on the FB thread (I didn't mention you or copy your words). So far nobody has come through - and I suspect that Odette's information that the immigration concern (in the UK at least) is about trying to sneak residency - which we cruisers are not... As a 100% liveaboard boat, currently in the UK, it's a worry for us... the penalties talked of (boat impoundment, etc) would be totally catastrophic to us if they happened to come to pass. Fingers crossed! Cheers!
Hi Bill,
Thanks for extending the reach of the Schengen questions I posed and I appreciate your passing it on the way you did. Please, could you post on the Forum any results as I think it would be of interest to cruisers to see what is actually occurring in this area.
I believe you may have mis-represented my position somewhat and perhaps I was not clear. I was 3 years in Northern Europe (over-wintering and living aboard full-time in London) and 5 in the Med where I also considered myself full-time live-aboard. It was only the last couple of seasons that we left the boat for the winter (grandchildren are a compelling draw). That said, we did not spend every night of the year aboard any more than I spent every night in my home when I had a land base. In my experience, a 100% every night on board life was quite rare (I can’t think of any). Many/most I know, like Ginger and me, did some land cruising/touristing during the winter (over to the continent for ex.) and many/most slipped to their home country for a couple of weeks if only to let their drs., dentists etc. have a shot at them. And, in doing so, upon each return to the UK, we received a 6-month stamp whether returning from the continent or from the US allowing us a good deal of flexibility in making cruising plan choices.
And I very much appreciated the generosity of the UK in having this 6-month visa and I hope the UK knows that they benefitted as we spent a fair amount of money during our stays, and chose to have a lot of boat work accomplished, again more money spent. Maybe more important was the high regard Ginger and I developed for the UK in our extended time there. It is my take, that for most of us cruisers to Northern Europe, the UK’s generosity in this regard, makes cruising Northern Europe workable for those boats where Schengen is an issue.
If you are unable, uninterested or unwilling to leave the boat at all in the winter, then you are correct, this is a challenge for staying in the UK as it is in all of Europe and, I suspect, is a challenge in any country save your home country. In the UK, though, you have 6 months. It is a bit of a stretch, but arriving late in the season (we stayed in the protected waters of the Netherlands enjoying that marvelous country till we had a nice weather window in late Oct or early Nov.) and leaving early (we left the UK in April for Cuxhaven) is quite doable in the 6-month window and in this way, being within the 6 months limit while not having to leave the boat during this period.
(BTW, to return to the original question: Kestrel could do the above and stay with the boat all winter if choosing not to do any out-of-the-UK traveling. It entails some cool/cold weather sailing in a time where weather is often deteriorating, but crossing the channel is not a long trip and will get a boat to some lovely over-wintering spots on the east coast of England.)
You write that boat impoundment is talked about and, if true, that would be a huge repercussion: can you cite where that is reported as a sanction? And for what violation? I wonder, in the context of a Schengen conversation, whether you are conflating Schengen with VAT. Perhaps a Schengen violation could result in confiscation of the boat, but that seems unlikely for a visa violation. It does seem more likely that this could occur with over-staying VAT’s safe window of 1.5 years: impounding at least until the VAT fee and penalties were paid (plenty repercussion enough). In the 2 Schengen violations I cited in earlier posts (and the only ones I have ever heard about), neither included any sanctions or repercussions on the boat or threat of such, just repercussions on the people (fines or barring admittance).
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
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By bbalme - 21 Jun 2020
Hi Dick,
You're right - I misinterpreted your sailing schedule in Europe. Sorry about that...
I don't have any factual evidence of penalties incurred by over-staying cruisers and your point that I may be confusing VAT issues is certainly possible. Nobody has since posted on the FB thread which appears to have now died...
With the very vague, sometimes contradictory immigration information, the fact that some EU countries have some special rules (like the Scandinavians, etc.), and on top of that, the advent of both Brexit and C-19, it has become exceedingly difficult to work out how we proceed from here (northern England). It is clear that trying to abide by all the deadlines (that we're aware of), makes long term cruising into the Med very difficult, with possible stops at non-Schengen countries limited to Morocco, Croatia and Turkey (without hitting the north African countries) - spending 6 months in one or a combination of them isn't particularly appealing...
We had a bit of a planning session this morning, and it looks like our best bet is to hit the European Atlantic coast only - then either cross back to the Caribbean or head south for Patagonia (pandemic allowing).
Cheers!
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By Hasbun - 21 Jun 2020
+xwith possible stops at non-Schengen countries limited to Morocco, Croatia and Turkey (without hitting the north African countries)
Our Schengen escapes in the Med were:
1 Montenegro,
2 Tunisia,
3 Turkey,
4 Israel,
5 Greek Cyprus.
6 Gibraltar can be used but it requires insistence to go to the Spanish/Gibraltar border and stand on the Spanish side until a supervisor agrees to give you an actual Schengen exit or entry stamp as the case might be —many a sailor have naively fallen for the non-Schengen square stamp routinely issued there, which is strictly for local use and which is not a valid rounded-corners Schengen stamp and which is not recognized by any other EU country. Most of the Spanish policemen at the Gib border crossing don’t even realize their boss keeps the genuine Schengen stamp locked in his desk, and so deny that a Schengen stamp exists, or that they have it, or that they can issue it. But if you hang around long enough the supervisor with the real deal eventually emerges.
7 Morocco we never needed to go to, so far.
8 Croatia we didn’t go on grounds of crowding, fee abuse at most _anchorages_, abusive border police with regard to points and times of entry and exit, and the fact we sailed there in a previous life. However, it is gorgeous cruising grounds and most cruisers report absolutely loving it there.
9 Many report lovely wintering in Turkish-occupied north Cyprus. We didn’t feel right supporting the occupation and in any event had no need to go there, but by all accounts the marinas are world-class.
10 Malta has been used by some as a Schengen refuge. No less than two boats of our closest friends have out-Schengened there in recent years, as the authorities were willing to stamp them out and let them stay in Malta for months. It’s a lovely place. Having said this, one or two people with whom we shared this were, for whatever reason, unable to get the same deal our friends got, and had to escape to Tunisia.
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By Dick - 21 Jun 2020
+x+xwith possible stops at non-Schengen countries limited to Morocco, Croatia and Turkey (without hitting the north African countries) Our Schengen escapes in the Med were: 1 Montenegro, 2 Tunisia, 3 Turkey, 4 Israel, 5 Greek Cyprus. 6 Gibraltar can be used but it requires insistence to go to the Spanish/Gibraltar border and stand on the Spanish side until a supervisor agrees to give you an actual Schengen exit or entry stamp as the case might be —many a sailor have naively fallen for the non-Schengen square stamp routinely issued there, which is strictly for local use and which is not a valid rounded-corners Schengen stamp and which is not recognized by any other EU country. Most of the Spanish policemen at the Gib border crossing don’t even realize their boss keeps the genuine Schengen stamp locked in his desk, and so deny that a Schengen stamp exists, or that they have it, or that they can issue it. But if you hang around long enough the supervisor with the real deal eventually emerges. 7 Morocco we never needed to go to, so far. 8 Croatia we didn’t go on grounds of crowding, fee abuse at most _anchorages_, abusive border police with regard to points and times of entry and exit, and the fact we sailed there in a previous life. However, it is gorgeous cruising grounds and most cruisers report absolutely loving it there. 9 Many report lovely wintering in Turkish-occupied north Cyprus. We didn’t feel right supporting the occupation and in any event had no need to go there, but by all accounts the marinas are world-class. 10 Malta has been used by some as a Schengen refuge. No less than two boats of our closest friends have out-Schengened there in recent years, as the authorities were willing to stamp them out and let them stay in Malta for months. It’s a lovely place. Having said this, one or two people with whom we shared this were, for whatever reason, unable to get the same deal our friends got, and had to escape to Tunisia.
Hi Hasbun,
Thanks for the info. It underlines, among other points, the import of being up to date as there are clear differences from when I knocked around the Med.
Thanks for confirming that Gibraltar is a difficult place to get Schengen documenting done. Your song-and-dance description is different from the one I remember being described, but similar in having challenging requirements.
We went to Smir in Morocco and had a lovely week there with some really nice land cruising into the mountains.
Agree completely in your description of cruising Croatia. One hopes that their perfection of nickel-and-diming (pence and shilling) the cruising community and borderline harassment does not catch on in other countries.
I am surprised that Greek Cyprus was a Schengen bail-out as Greece is certainly in Schengen: is there an explanation?
I wish someone with skills in this area would estimate the loss of money to the EU countries because of Schengen. There is the actual $$ and also the anxiety and bad feelings generated by the difficulties this policy generates and the restriction outsiders experience in really getting to know well these fascinating countries and their history.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
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By Hasbun - 21 Jun 2020
Cyprus is an independent country which is part of the EU but not part of Schengen. The other countries in this category are Croatia, Romania, and Bulgaria.
All of these are good Schengen clock wait-out locations, though unfortunately harbor infrastructure and accommodation in the latter two are less than ideal, so only a few hardy souls sail there. We have an extended trip to Transylvania and the Carpathians laid out since about 15 years ago that we’ve never had the chance to take, and especially not while living aboard full time, but it remains high on our priority list after our sailing adventures wrap up. We’ll do it by airplane and car, when we get the chance.
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By Dick - 21 Jun 2020
+xCyprus is an independent country which is part of the EU but not part of Schengen. The other countries in this category are Croatia, Romania, and Bulgaria. All of these are good Schengen clock wait-out locations, though unfortunately harbor infrastructure and accommodation in the latter two are less than ideal, so only a few hardy souls sail there. We have an extended trip to Transylvania and the Carpathians laid out since about 15 years ago that we’ve never had the chance to take, and especially not while living aboard full time, but it remains high on our priority list after our sailing adventures wrap up. We’ll do it by airplane and car, when we get the chance.
Hi Hasbun,
Understood, (I think). And we wonder why these things are confusing to us mere mortals. Your planned land cruising sounds great. Dick
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By DariaBlackwell - 12 Aug 2020
The RYA is conducting a survey of British citizens to see how Brexit will affect British boaters once Schengen rules kick in.
https://marineindustrynews.co.uk/the-rya-asks-recreational-boaters-for-input-on-schengen-discussions/
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By Hasbun - 27 Nov 2020
I would like to confirm that Spain, like Norway, Sweden, and Denmark, does issue national stay extensions beyond the 90 day Schengen limit. We had been told about this about 5 years ago from another U.S. cruiser who got it, but did not have 1st hand experience with it.
The Norwegian, Danish and Swedish stay extensions are treaty-based, so these are only available to about 20 countries, including Honduras and the U.S., for example. No justification is needed, though some paperwork may be required.
The Spanish extension is not based on any treaties, so anyone, even the British, can apply for it. However, justification is needed. In our case, we explained that because of hurricane season it was not safe to depart transatlantic on our 90-day expiry, the 3rd of November. Pleading safety and attaching documentation that proves hurricane season only ends the 1st of December, and that certain bodies advise an even later departure, we were issued extensions until the 3rd of February.
The cost was €17.50 per person, payable once the extension is approved, and €1.05 per person per day requested, payable before the extension is approved. In the Cádiz office, it appears the criteria is not too demanding, so I think if you have a half-decent excuse you will be issued.
Since this is Spain, expect no-one at the government offices to speak any foreign language. I doubt anyone with zero Spanish would succeed at navigating the procedural rigours, particularly in these times when the Cádiz office won’t give you the time of day unless you secure an online appointment weeks in advance.
The application will be summarily rejected unless on the day of application one is still within the original 90 day period.
The procedure exists, in reality, all over Spain, but issuance leniency and knowledge that it even exists will vary from city to city. The very same “Extranjería” government office in some cities issues extensions and unaccountably simply does not offer the service in others. Information on which ones do and do not is on the web but extremely difficult to find.
We’ve heard of others also getting extensions in La Coruña. If anyone has questions, feel free to reach out to me.
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By Hasbun - 27 Nov 2020
I will re-post this here because I had forgotten all about it:
Denmark has changed the terms of their automatic extension above and beyond Schengen for certain nationalities.
For people from NZ and US, an excellent update: days spent elsewhere in Scandinavia no are no longer deducted! One should be able to do 90 days Schengen, 90 days Norway/Sweden (combined), and 90 days Denmark, for a grand total 270 days before having to sail directly to Ireland, UK or Russia. Small new downside: any days spent in Denmark itself in the previous six months are now deducted. A big net win.
Malaysians, Chileans, Koreans, Australians, Canadians, Israelis, Japanese and Singaporeans, on the other hand, all get slightly worse terms than before. Here is the government page:
https://www.nyidanmark.dk/en-GB/Applying/Short%20stay%20visa/Visa%20free%20visits
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By Dick - 27 Nov 2020
+xI will re-post this here because I had forgotten all about it:
Denmark has changed the terms of their automatic extension above and beyond Schengen for certain nationalities. For people from NZ and US, an excellent update: days spent elsewhere in Scandinavia no are no longer deducted! One should be able to do 90 days Schengen, 90 days Norway/Sweden (combined), and 90 days Denmark, for a grand total 270 days before having to sail directly to Ireland, UK or Russia. Small new downside: any days spent in Denmark itself in the previous six months are now deducted. A big net win. Malaysians, Chileans, Koreans, Australians, Canadians, Israelis, Japanese and Singaporeans, on the other hand, all get slightly worse terms than before. Here is the government page:
https://www.nyidanmark.dk/en-GB/Applying/Short%20stay%20visa/Visa%20free%20visits
Hi all,
This sounds like a great opportunity for those from the US and NZ wishing to cruise Europe at a more leisurely pace.
I would urge those vessels going this route to document every step of the way, both he relevant gov’t documents and the vessel documents pertaining to adhering to the rules.
My take for my 10+ years in Europe on a boat was that many officials are pretty fuzzy on the Schengen rules. Then there were the countries I experienced as aggressive in pursuit of Schengen violations and assumed guilt so you needed to document innocence. That said, most officials were just fine, but it only took one outlier to ruin your day.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
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By Hasbun - 27 Nov 2020
Dick, 100% agree with you on all points.
By the time we depart Spain in late January, we will have been 5 years 7 months in Europe, all this time as tourists.
Well, we are counting six months in Asia Minor (Turkey), three months in Israel, and two weeks in Tunisia as “Europe”, when in reality these three are not, but these were part of our Med Schengen strategy and it worked.
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By Hasbun - 1 Dec 2020
It turns out that the non-treaty-based national stay extension available in Spain is also available in Portugal, along similar lines. A non-OCC friend reports the following:
«We have done this in Portugal in Madeira.
Our “reason” was warranty issues with some work done in a shipyard in Lisbon. We presented the receipts of the time the boat had stayed in the yard and noted we needed to return to Lisbon to the yard for rectification of works.
No questions were asked or more details requested but we had to have flight tickets to depart Schengen to receive the visa extension.
Proof of a certain of amount of money in a bank account/ proof of income, and had to pay a fee of 1€ per day of visa.
We got 95 days, basically the date of the flight ticket.
We were informed we could not move on to any other Schengen country under that visa and that we would have to clear the passport time before re-entering Schengen
In Portugal the visa extension is requested at SEF (serviço de estrangeiros e fronteiras) counter in the Loja do Cidadão (it’s like a place that has all sorts of administrative service counters in big towns)»
So the Portuguese national extension is analogous to the Spanish one, except the officers in Rota and Cádiz realise sailors don’t fly and therefore do not request exit airplane tickets.
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By bbalme - 2 Dec 2020
We're in Portugal now - where the immigration authorities has made all temporary visas good until March 31st - without need to file an extension. This is all Covid related so not a general rule. We're hoping it might get extended again in view of the recent covid increases...
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By adrianbiggs - 2 Dec 2022
Tunisia is another p-lace to restart the 180/90 day European rule
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By Dick - 3 Dec 2022
+xTunisia is another p-lace to restart the 180/90 day European rule
Hi Bill,
Smir, Morocco, is a stop that is easy and gets the boat and you out of the EU. There is easy bus service into the interior and the mountains.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
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By Colin.Mills - 1 Feb 2023
In May 2022 I set off from Southern Ireland for Northern Spain. I travelled down the Portuguese coast, to Porto Santo, Madeira and Gran Canaria. Not once was I asked to check into the Schengen area. All they wanted was my registration, insurance and passport details which were passed to the police.
Before leaving Ireland, I contacted the Vigo port authority about Schengen. This was their response.
Good morning, Mr. Mills
It does not make any difference at all. You must proceed as previously mentioned.
You should provide the data to the marina where you are calling and they will send it to the Immigration Police. It continues to be recreational navigation and therefore under the protection of what is included in the Schengen border code in section 3.2.4 of ANNEX VI
Best regards,
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