By sfoot - 24 Apr 2017
We are in the early stages of planning a trip across the Pacific in 2019 and I think I ought to install an SSB radio in addition to the satellite phone we currently have on board. Our sailing tends to be very unsophisticated in terms of electronics: in many ways I would almost rather turn the whole lot off and get on with the real task in hand…
The boat is currently in Croatia and we are planning to winter this year in Sicily and I was going to get the yard to install it. If at all possible, I want to avoid putting any more holes in the hull. We currently have rod rigging (which is quite old) and a split backstay, but shows no sign of wear and so I am reluctant to replace it. We are just replacing the batteries on board and that will give us something like 500Ah and an alternator that throws out 130A – so that ought to be plenty of power.
I have heard all sorts of stories about what radio to buy (Is it true that ones bought in US have more channels?) and how to install. I wondered if someone might might be able to point me in the right direction – may be just about the ups and downs of SSB. and what I should and should not do!
I hope that there are members of the club who can help a raw novice in this field. many thanks
Stephen Foot
Water Music
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By bbalme - 26 Apr 2017
Hi Stephen,
Installing an SSB isn 't difficult, but getting it to work well can be downright impossible at times! The installation itself is relatively straightforward - but you 'll need an antenna solution and a ground plane solution...
The most common antenna solution would be your backstay - so if you don 't have isolators at top and bottom of the backstay, you 'd need to have them installed. I 'm guessing this could be expensive and something that should be done by a rigging expert. An alternative would be a long whip antenna, but I 'm not sure how well these work for SSB...
Everything else is in my opinion best done by yourself - because it 's YOU that 's going to have to fine tune the details in order to get best reception and transmission. The good news is that it 's relatively simple - but best to follow the instructions!
The Ground plane (counterpoise) solution used to require a load of copper foil and copper mesh all over the boat - not easy - but these days there 's a good (not perfect) solution - a KISS counterpoise which is extremely easy to install.
Most new SSB 's are Icom 801/802 - as far as I know they are the same - but I guess it 's possible that the UK version may come with fewer pre-programmed stations - but you should be able to program them all...
Once installed, the difficulties start - trying to improve upon the reception. You need to identify and isolate all the electrical noise generators in the boat... this can take time and patience!
Good luck with the installation!
Bill
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By bwallace - 27 Apr 2017
Hi, I agree with what Bill has said, but would like to add from my experience. As an SSB user for over 10 years. It is a great bit of kit, and extremely useful on long ocean passages. Three weeks crossing an ocean. A radio net is wonderful company each morning find out what fellow cruisers are up to, what weather those ahead are getting, besides a social chat after all safety stuff has been gone through.
In regard to types of radio, I bought the Icom 802 in 2006. At that time you could not get an 802 which was UK type approved. Although the 802 had been about In the US for a whIle, so that is what I bought. Only the 702 was UK a Type approved, but the 802 seemed and was far more user friendly.
As a net controller for various nets in the Pacific, it became obvious during that 5 years that the vessels that generally had the best radios, i.e could pick up distant signals where many could not, where the vessels using the UK type approved 802. I know much is down to installation, but these are observations made by myself as a SSB user.
With this experience, and had they been around when I bought my 802 and having this experience now, It would be worth paying the extra for a UK type approved SSB.
Go for a good ground plate, and use a 100mm copper strip, keep the run to the tuner as short as possible. Can be a sod to install, but the results are well worth it. I know nothing about the Kiss, so can 't comment on that.
We also may be in Sicily this next winter.
Fair winds
Brian s/v Darramy
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By Victor.Bom - 5 May 2017
Hi Stephen,
I agree fully with the comments already published. Only a few remarks:
I have an ICOM 801, the only mf/hf device apporved in the Netherlands. I am very happy with it. The story goes that it is equal to the 802 on the outside but that internally it is totally different, the 801 being the better device in terms of corrosion etc. There is a marked price difference in favor of the 802 though.
There is a lot of information on the internet about installation of mf/hf trancievers. Very usefull.
In addition to the radio and antenna you need also an antenna tuner. There are tuners that must be tuned manually, but an automatic one is much to be preferred.
If you want to send/receive Emails, weather forecasts (gribs), weather fax charts etc. you will want a modem. Pactor modems are very wide spread. It can be done using the sound chart of your PC, but I have no experience with that method, it seems a bit cumbersome.
Success,
Victor
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By DariaBlackwell - 7 May 2017
Here is the information on the KISS-SSB Ground / Counterpoise. http://www.kiss-ssb.com/ It sounds very good indeed. Thanks for the heads up, Bill.
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By simoncurrin - 25 Mar 2018
We have a 19 year old icom m-710 which we haven’t used for ten years. Having now exited European waters we switched it on and it is receiving fine. The power supply is good but when we press the PTT button on the fist microphone nothing happens. I’m not sure if this is a problem with the mic or with the set and wondered if there is anyone able advise? Do fist mics fail? If it’s a set problem is there anything simple I can check?
Simon
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By Dick - 25 Mar 2018
Hi Simon,
The M-710 is a fine SSB, almost bulletproof, but, of course, without the bells and whistles of modern technology, all of which, at my last review, I felt I could do without: hence, I still use my 710.
10 years is a long time, so a few hours spent checking and cleaning every connection and making sure of all continuity and ensuring no shorts will be well worth the effort. It takes very little to interfere with SSB operation.
How do you know you are not TXing? Were you trying it on the hard?
First, chk to see you should see if the 710 is set to TX on high power. If so, you should see a significant voltage drop when the PTT button is depressed on any reasonably sized cruising battery bank.
If not, the mic is likely still good and I would move next to the tuner cable. If you hear a click of the tuner (what tuner do you have) when you change frequencies (say 12 megs to an 8 meg channel) when you depress the PTT button, that is a good sign.
There is a start. I will think on more.
Good luck, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
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By Hasbun - 26 Mar 2018
On our 24v boat, full power transmission is evidenced by about an 8A draw. Should be more, but it is what it is.
Dick's advice regarding using power consumption as an indicator of transmission activity is true and tried, but look at this little anecdote: we have two battery monitoring systems. One old and original to the boat, and one the latest and greatest from Mastervolt. Very fancy. Well, the Mastervolt is nearly useless to determine SSB transmission consumption, because instead of giving an instant reading to the second, it seems to report a trend of power consumption over the past five seconds or so. So only the old and "obsolete" power meter is good for checking the radio.
The microphone on our M-710 was found to be broken in 2014. The little wire at the base of the microphone wore off, like a cheap microphone. Which it is! I think the replacement was only $25 or so. It's been fine since.
Cheers,
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By Dick - 26 Mar 2018
Good advice, Hasbun,
Many battery monitoring systems are not up to the task of reading battery v with enough accuracy and, as you clarify, without averaging. I guess I was thinking of a good digital VOM for this job (and for the continuity/shorts inspections), although keying the mic with an analog meter should make it jump.
My best, Dick
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By Dick - 26 Mar 2018
BTW Hasbun,
I would guess that 8a is about right for a 24v system as the max power draw for the M-710 is about 150 watts (as I believe all marine SSBs must have for max TX).
My best, Dick
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By Dick - 26 Mar 2018
On second thought, 6 amps should make for about 150 watts at 24v. D
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By simoncurrin - 27 Mar 2018
Thanks both for you input and Dick thanks for your's off line. Interesting that there are previously repoorted failures of the Mic. I heard back today from Yacht.com who say they can no longer get replacement mics as the plug was more or less unique to that model and is obsolete. I think I need to be a bit more systematic in my fault finding next time I'm on the boat and see if I can check out the continuity of the various Mic connections and repair if required. I've got a meter for measuring aerial output too and, as Dick says, I need to check the ATU which I had actually forgotten all about! It would be great to get it working for N America and beyond! I will let you know how I get on.
Simon
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By Dick - 27 Mar 2018
Hi Simon,
Mics (Hm 180) that are compatible for the 710 seem to be fairly easily available here in the US. Mics do break (actually, it is the wiring connections that usually give way: I always try to figure some sort of strain relief before the terminal connections, both to the transceiver and the mic), but with the amount of down time your unit has, I would still be betting on a corroded terminal or something similar.
Use google US for details on the Hm180 as the 710s are far less common in marine Europe. It will be the pin configuration that will be most important. ICOM is usually quite responsive to inquiries, so you might call them.
I know also people who are likely to have access to equipment. I could bring/leave a mic in Lewisporte and if we share an anchorage and we can do some trouble-shooting and some comm during the coming season.
And, yes, it would be great to get it working as SSB comm really solidifies the cruising community on this side of the pond and is far far more functionally useful than any maritime use of SSB in Northern Europe or the Med.
My best, Dick
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By simoncurrin - 29 Mar 2018
Dick
That just confirms the value of this Forum! A U.K. dealer says mics are no longer available but, as you say, they are all over eBay. And affordable too. I will get one ordered up and hope for the best. I’m now determined to get it working by hook or by crook.
Simon
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By simoncurrin - 7 Apr 2018
I have ordered a replacement Mic from Hong Kong for £30 (ebay) so hoping it will work. I also came across a broken m-710 on eBay where the owner had replaced the Mic only to find that the output amplifier had failed but it's still worth the gamble.
Simon
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By alshaheen - 14 Apr 2018
I was introduced to a useful facility yesterday by Bob Smith of YachtCom for testing SSB sets. You need to have a Windows computer connected to the internet. It involves the use of SDR (software determined radio). There are dozens of SDR "listening" stations around the world which a user can tune to a particular frequency and mode from a laptop. You can select a station location, tune it to a suitable frequency, then tune your SSB to the same frequency and transmit a test message whilst at the same time listening to your transmission being received by the remote station on your laptop.
Procedure:
1. select www.sdr.hu and review the stations available. Each one will show the number of users allowed (usually 3 or 4) and the number currently using the station
2. select a station within the distance you expect to be able to transmit
3. in the panel on the right side of the screen, enter the frequency on which you want to transmit (example 6227.0 kHz) and select the mode (example USB)
4. Tune you SSB to the same transmit frequency and mode (example 6227.0, USB)
5. Transmit a test message on your SSB and listen for the message being received via the SDR station on your laptop.
Yesterday we tested Al Shaheen's SSB very successfully on 6 and 8 Mhz bands talking to SDR stations in Switzerland, Holland and Sweden and hearing good reception on the laptop.
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By alshaheen - 14 Apr 2018
Our 15 year old Pactor III modem aboard Al Shaheen has died. Does anyone know of a repair facility in the UK, or have experience of repairing a Pactor modem?
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By Dick - 14 Apr 2018
Hi John,
Firstly, I would inspect/test all connections/terminals etc. to ensure that the modem is the bad apple, especially if the unit has been sitting unused for a while. They are really pretty bulletproof if in a dry place. It sounds like the transceiver is working well.
It is possible to get Pactor Modems repaired. Farallon Electronics does so in the US as they are the distributor for the German based manufacturer (as I understand things). So, it might even be easier to get repaired in your part of the world. Make sure they install all the updates/upgrades at the same time as I found them complicated on my own with the limited internet the boat often has.
Thanks for the heads up on the SSB testing procedures.
Let us know how this unfolds.
My best, Dick
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By bbalme - 19 Apr 2018
I must be doing something wrong again! I tried the website [font=sans-serif]www.sdr.hu while the OCC's Caribbean net was running on 6227. I logged onto the node in Virginia (K1RA/KW4VAA) and then changed the frequency to 6227 and the band to USB using the panel on the right - but all I could hear was static. I was expecting to hear the net... What am I missing?[/font]
[font=sans-serif]
[/font]
[font=sans-serif](I could hear the net very well on the SSB...)[/font]
[font=sans-serif]
[/font]
[font=sans-serif]
[/font]
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By Charles.Griffiths - 5 May 2018
[quote=Charles.Griffiths][quote=John Franklin]Our 15 year old Pactor III modem aboard Al Shaheen has died. Does anyone know of a repair facility in the UK, or have experience of repairing a Pactor modem?[/quote][/quote]
I will get the hang of this in a minute....Bob Smith - mail@yachtcom.co.uk - tel 44 1489 565100 is expert on this subject and guided me to my short wave cert.
Regards
Charles
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By Kate.Walker - 1 Feb 2019
Hope I am posting this in the right place. If not can someone let us know
We are adding an SSB to Our boat in preparation for a Pacific crossing. We are wondering about adding a Pactor modem also. We already have a sat phone that we use sparingly for calls and data. The move for data seems to be towards satellite. Is there real benefit in having both the sat phone and the Pactor modem or should we just focus data on the satellite? Thanks in advance for any responses.
Kate and Graham Walker, SY Barracuda.
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By alshaheen - 1 Feb 2019
Congratulations on making the decision to add an SSB. A satphone is no substitute. Make sure the installation is done hy someone who knws what they are doing. The most common mistake is to underrate the power cable. When transmitting you are using about 25 amps so the power cable must be rated accordingly.
Re the Pactor modem. Not essential if you can get data by satellite but you can use it for weatherfax and grib files for free and if you subscribe to Sailmail, once you have paid the annual $300? Fee all your emails are free. There is, of course, a restriction on transmission times depending on where you are in relation to the receiving stations and propagation but when ocean sailing you normally maintain a 24 hour warch so you can store emails abd then send/receive when prpogation is best, normally at night. Pactors are expensive but are available on eBay. If you can afford one I woukd say go for it. As with all marine electronics there is always a benefit in having some redundancy especially when ocean cruising.
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By Dick - 1 Feb 2019
Hi Kate,
This can be a complex and, at times, controversial subject.
I have, for decades been a user of marine SSB (WCZ-7716) and Amateur/ham (KC2HKW) and I have used a sat-phone for the last 3 years or so.
The bulk of the last 2 decades, I was full time live-aboard and received all weather (gribs and text and, occasionally, voice) by SSB radio. I got a sat-phone only to go to N latitude destinations (Iceland and Greenland) where I thought SSB would have difficulties (I was right, it did).
The following is my take on the current state of long distance comm:
For purely safety considerations, the sat phone (I do not know what you have and some coverage is better than others, we have Iridium) is the choice to have. SSB has its place (and you will hear stories about SSB facilitating safety and I have used it in this manner), but, in an emergency, for dependability and reliability and quick response, the sat-phone is hard to beat. And some models are portable which means they can be taken onto a liferaft or carried in back-country hiking. With a data connection and a good shore-based interface to compress emails, gribs and wx charts (UUPlus works for us and are great to work with)
SSB is not a black art no matter what anyone says, but there is a learning curve and many installations have limitations and quirks at the beginning and professional installation is only marginally more successful (in my experience and observation) than a patient, well-researched DIY installation. And when you do it yourself, you know what is there and where.
When thinking of SSB, move away from considering it primarily for safety and data (email/weather etc.) and think of it instead as a way of being connected to a wonderfully diverse cruising community which can enrich your cruising significantly and convey local knowledge of where you might be heading. And there are weather routers on the far side of the Pacific on a regular sked.
The Carib has robust nets also while Europe is a veritable wasteland for SSB marine nets: ham nets yes, mostly land based.
Modems have become impressively expensive from what I hear. You can download a lot of data on a sat-phone for the cost of a good radio, modem and installation. And there is a somewhat steep learning curve for SSB use, particularly Sailmail/Winlink. If your email usage is heavy, and timely (you do not want to wait till port) then a SSB modem may be worth it.
I would suggest, as you are already getting a SSB, waiting on the modem and collecting information from other cruisers as to its usefulness, especially from those who also have a sat-phone. Do a lot of voice comm and have fun with it. Set up skeds with those who are going the same direction as you. The down side is that it may be harder to find a modem especially a used one, in the Pacific.
Please write again if you go the SSB/modem route and I will make a few suggestions to jump start the learning curve.
Come back with questions/comments,
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
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By bbalme - 2 Feb 2019
Hi Kate,
We have a recent model modem for our SSB - the Dragon it's called... It's considerably faster than the old one I had and works over bluetooth - so I can actually do emails etc while sitting at the salon desk! It's still not able to stream but getting weather info and text emails is easy and fast. I'm lucky in that we are HAMS so can use Winlink, but Sailmail works well from what I remember, and hooking up to the best signal for sending/receiving is very simple.
I don't have a sat phone so can't compare it's use.
Good luck with your preparations!
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By Dick - 2 Feb 2019
Hi Bill,
Wow, that is interesting about the new modems: mine is a pct2e upgraded to pactor 3 but I think that is as far as it can go,
BTW, when I click on an email in the “recent emails” it does not take me to the residing place of the email as it did in the past. My casual observation is that the email only resides in the “recent email” area rather than its designated area, say “SSB radios”. It makes things for me a bit confusing responding.
My best, Dick
Ps. all the messages seem to appear, but only after I click "respond".
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By Nigel.Studdart - 14 Mar 2019
Dick I wonder if you could help me, I am looking at putting a Ham set aboard as I get my ham licence in NZ, I have an Icom M802 and Pactor but its limited to marine bands. Whats my best option for a simple and robust Ham set?
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By Dick - 14 Mar 2019
Hi Nigel,
Congratulations on achieving your Ham ticket. I am sure you will find both pleasure and usefulness from using your rig.
For a couple of decades, I used (and still use) a venerable and almost bulletproof ICOM M710. I have also put in a ICOM IC 7000 (Ham). Both use the same tuner, an AT 130 and the same backstay antenna.
Most ICOMs can be “clipped” for use on Ham freqs., although my knowledge in this area is 15-20 yrs. Old. A Ham Pactor installer clipped my M710 and for 15 years, I used it for all the hf and mf Ham work I did. That said, all the safeguards built into marine SSBs, made it cumbersome to use on Ham freqs.
In the day, it was quite easy to get the marine SSB clipped in the US. ICOM would not do it but they seemed not to care if it was done and would service clipped transceivers without comment. Some dealers would clip upon initial purchase as would many installers. Call around and ask at local Ham radio clubs.
I would recommend seeing if you can get your ICOM clipped for Ham freqs and see how much you use it before getting and installing a dedicated Ham radio. I used mine for Winlink and Ham nets for many years without problem. Using a dedicated Ham radio on a boat is (largely) if you wish to “surf” the freqs and make many contacts. My interest was more pragmatic so the marine SSB, clipped as it was, checked those pragmatic boxes: still does.
Come back with questions/comments or if your wish to proceed with buying a Ham dedicated radio.
My best, Dick Stevenson, KC2HKW, s/v Alchemy
PS. Casual look at Googling clipping seems to indicate that ICOM will do the clipping now. And check your antenna input: that might be different on 802s for a clipped unit working Ham freqs
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By freedomandadventure - 18 Mar 2019
Hi Dick, long time no speak. Andrew and Clare here from Eye Candy
As you know i'm a devotee of HF/SSB radio. it facilitates your connection to the cruising community in a way no other medium can. we are now in the Pacific and over 15 years so far we have used the hf every day for voice and for pactor.
i think the more usual term is 'opening'. on a m802 it is really easy to do with keystrokes on the front panel. after that you can tune the set just like a ham set with a vfo. just google open m802 and you will get http://www.docksideradio.com/icom_802_programming.htm.
so Nigel, you dont need a ham set except for a spare.
Simon, has your new mic worked.
cheers
andrew
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By simoncurrin - 18 Mar 2019
Andrew
Yes the new mic works fine. A cheapie from eBay.
Simon
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By Dick - 18 Mar 2019
Hi Andrew,
How nice to hear from you and we (Ginger and I) send our very best to you and Clare.
Appreciate the report on your use of SSB in everyday cruising life and how much it can enhance the experience of community among cruisers. Field reports are always the best.
Good to know about the “opening” of an 802 to Ham use: for the 710, we called it clipping and it sounds like it was a much bigger deal than is now the case with the 802. Thanks for weighing in.
Dockside Radio is a good shop and give good service.
Safe sailing, Dick Stevenson, KC2HKW, s/v Alchemy
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By freedomandadventure - 18 Mar 2019
hi Dick,
And its good to hear from you and Ginger, our best wishes to you both.
I think the term clipping in this context came from the action of cutting a wire or two in the earlier radios to enable the operation over all frequencies. In most countries it is legal to use a marine radio in the ham bands but the ham radio specs do not comply for use on maritime frequencies which are tighter spec. Trained ears can hear the difference and hams radios used on marine frequencies are often slightly off frequency.
The earlier M802 radios had a 'clipping problem' which was the instantaneous dropping of the power on a voice peak caused by over sensitive protection circuit. however this has been rectified in later models and repaired free of charge by Icom in the USA. My 802 used to clip badly but has been modified in the US.
I hope i havent drifted.
cheers
Andrew, VK2HBH
Eye Candy VJN2982
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By freedomandadventure - 18 Mar 2019
Hi Nigel,
If you are in NZ, have a talk to Peter Mott. He operates a maritime coast station and a ham station at his home in Russel. He offers a free tracking service for yachts on maritime frequencies and gets involved with the ham Pacific Seafarers Net on 14300 at 0300utc daily. he is very knowledgeable and operates across both ham and marine.
google Northland Radio to see his website and contact details
cheers
Andrew
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By Dick - 19 Mar 2019
Yes, Andrew, No drift and appreciate your reminder of past hx. Always nice to have things in context. Dick
[quote=freedomandadventure]hi Dick,
And its good to hear from you and Ginger, our best wishes to you both.
I think the term clipping in this context came from the action of cutting a wire or two in the earlier radios to enable the operation over all frequencies. In most countries it is legal to use a marine radio in the ham bands but the ham radio specs do not comply for use on maritime frequencies which are tighter spec. Trained ears can hear the difference and hams radios used on marine frequencies are often slightly off frequency.
The earlier M802 radios had a 'clipping problem' which was the instantaneous dropping of the power on a voice peak caused by over sensitive protection circuit. however this has been rectified in later models and repaired free of charge by Icom in the USA. My 802 used to clip badly but has been modified in the US.
I hope i havent drifted.
cheers
Andrew, VK2HBH
Eye Candy VJN2982[/quote]
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By ka4wja - 13 Mar 2021
Hello to all, and to Stephen, et al,
I know this is an old thread, and I suspect that Stephen and the others have long since moved on.... but in the hope that some will stumble upon this discussion, I want to give some detail here...
A few brief specific comments, regarding Stephen's query.....
Use of a home-made "rope-tenna" or a simple wire antenna is fine....but, no worries about a "split-backstay being used as an HF antenna....also, be aware that unless you have a lot of extra $$$$, the radio choice is easy-peasy, the Icom M-802 (or M-801e, if you felt your gov't regulations necessitate it) or the new Icom M-803....forget the KISS Ground, you can do better for $5, and a LOT better with a direct sea water antenna ground connection (see details in links below)....also, take caution with many on-line recommendations, as well meaning as most are, many are just "lucky" and almost all are simply anecdotal, not based on engineering nor real-world repeatable results....follow the basic/simple tips of the Sailmail Primer as well as from those of us who've been doing this for decades (see details below), and you'll be fine! :)
And, as for specific radio issues / troubleshooting, these are also fully fleshed-out in the linked discussions below....(fyi, it's usually RFI.....a wiring or installation issue.....and/or a misunderstanding of radiowave propagation.......but, of course, a 20+ year old radio, has other more likely issues....)
Now, onto the vast expanse of info...
1) As a longtime OCC member, and an offshore sailor since the 1970's, I should probably check in to the OCC Forum more often....sorry about that. :(
As a longtime HF radio engineer / radio op (and installer --- having assisted in my first "marine SSB" install, in 1973), who has spent the last 50 years studying, and teaching, Radiowave Propagation and Antenna System Design (mostly on shore-side, but for on-board as well, both maritime and ham), and many aspects of modern radio communications....as well as spent many, many an hour in the real-world operating on-the-air, over the past 45 - 50 years, and have had more than a few friends / fellow sailors ask for my help understanding these things, so I decided years ago to try to help others that I'll never meet in person (using email, internet, and Youtube)....hence some of my rather long-winded and infamous postings on Cruiser's Forum and on the SSCA pages, as well as some helpful Youtube videos...
{Fyi, this all for free....I don't get anything from this, from anyone, no sponsors, no subscribers, etc....and I do not participate in any Youtube revenue streams, (no adverts), etc., nor do I market this info / educational material, nor do I attempt to get noticed, listed, "liked", etc. on-line....so, for these main reasons, you'll not find too many of my videos popping up to the top very much in Google searches, but they are there nonetheless, and have been for years (8 - 10 years on Youtube, and ~ 15 years elsewhere)....so, have a look at the links to the Playlists I put together, etc....and enjoy!}
Also, be aware that while I use HF radio (marine and ham) at the dock all the time (and regularly receive and print-out WeFax charts, while still tied to the dock)....and of course I use HF radio on-shore (ham radio) all the time....almost all of the discussion here of HF ("SSB") radio and sat comm / sat phones is for when out cruising, when at anchor or offshore / at-sea, and/or in remote locales....especially when you are away from cellular/mobile (and/or Wi-Fi) service...
"Radio Nuts" like me, use the radio all the time, instead of a phone, computer, etc.....but, for most others it's not a "love", but rather a tool to use.....although, when actually learning and experiencing success in HF radio comms, some skeptical sailors find themselves falling in love with "radio".... :) No infrastructure, no fees, no restrictions, no "out-of-service", no "not enough bars of signal", etc., so it can a nice change-of-pace for some....but, for many sailors, this is just a discussion about another tool / system on-board, and they won't fall in love with radio....and, while I think that a shame, I understand. LOL No worries here.... :)
2) In the world of radio communications we have an old adage: "If you can't hear 'em, you can't work 'em!" .....meaning successful HF comms is all about signal-to-noise ratio!
When it comes to improving the "signal", since the HF antenna system on most small boats is a compromise (that needs to operate from 1.6mhz thru 26mhz, and be effective / efficient for most HF maritime comms from 2mhz/4mhz - 12mhz, and/or 3.6mhz thru 14mhz for most ham radio HF comms), and in most situations on sailboats, the antenna is part of the rigging that holds the mast up, so its primary purpose is far from being part of a communications system, so the antenna is usually a compromise that is as good as we can make it, although attention should be paid to the antenna ground system, in order to improve your antenna system....
So now you see that, reducing the "noise" part is of great importance here, and while this used to be easy-peasy, now-a-days with the many RFI-generating devices on-board boats (both yours and others nearby), it can be a pain....but do-able, and necessary!
Now, with that adage in mind, please take note that the three most important criteria for success in HF Communications on-board are:
a) Far and above all, the Number 1 thing is reducing your on-board "radio noise" (RFI)
b) Tied for second place are:
b) --- learning and understanding radiowave propagation...(just like learning sail trim, navigation, weather forecasting, anchoring skill, head maintenance, diesel repair, etc., are important to voyaging / cruising....improving your knowledge and expertise in basic radiowave propagation is an extremely important part of successful HF radio operations.....understand this is long-range radio comms, without high-tech infrastructure, i.e. this is not like using a smart phone!)
b) --- improving your antenna system (and antenna ground system)...and making sure your radio is powered correctly (directly from the main battery bank, thru a dedicated breaker/fuse, not thru a distribution panel / breaker panel)....see details in linked postings, etc...
Those sailors who have installed, or are considering, an HF comm system (i.e. "marine SSB" or ham), that are unwilling to do these above tasks, are highly prone to poor results....and, unfortunately if the folks selling, and/or installing, this equipment are ignorant of these facts above (or worse are just too lazy to do anything about them), then the unfortunate sailor is left hanging, and usually these are the ones who say/write things like "SSB is old school....doesn't really work anymore." and/or "all you'll ever hear is static" and/or "a sat phone is much better", etc. etc....although, the facts don't support any of those statements (HF Comms, both SSB Voice and DSC, etc. are part of the GMDSS, and used daily....HF-DSC calls are almost constant these days, and there is a much higher use of HF-digital comms/PACTOR now than just 10 years ago.....and, if you look at the videos you'll see the lack of static and the ease-of-comms), this doesn't stop the falsehoods from spreading.....{heck, remember another old saying: "a lie will make it around the world, before the truth gets its boots on"....well, in the world of HF comms, this is sadly a truism...}
Please allow me to make a few observations here....and (as opposed to the mostly facts that I'm trying to project), allow me to type a quick opinion here:
---- few would buy a sailboat from someone who knew little about sailing.
---- few would buy sails from someone that knew little about sails/sailmaking.
---- few would buy an outboard motor from someone who knew little about outboards.
---- few would buy a diesel engine, or a computer, or a refrigeration unit, etc. etc.....from those who knew little about them...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BUT....(opinion alert)
---- But, it seems that many sailors buy HF radios ("marine SSB") from those who know little about HF Communications? One reason is that, those that sell/install most "consumer-grade" marine electronics have no clue about HF Radio at all (although many of those same retailers/installers erroneously think they do....they might know how-to program the radio, but nothing about how HF communications work!)....and those in the maritime world that do know, are either:
a) usually in the "commercial communications business" (selling, installing, certifying GMDSS systems)
b) small, specialty shops (like Dockside Radio, here in Florida, but sells/ships worldwide....)
http://docksideradio.com/
http://www.docksideradio.com/FAQ.htm
http://www.docksideradio.com/Cruising%20Nets.htm
http://www.docksideradio.com/Icom%20SSB%20Radios.htm
http://www.docksideradio.com/M803_ch_Guide.htm
SO.....
So, in addition to the 3 basic criteria, above, for success in HF comms on-board, another one is this: buy and/or have it installed by someone that REALLY understands this stuff, OR INSTALL IT YOURSELF (and learn about ridding your boat of RFI-producing devices, or simply disconnect 'em when using the radio; learn about radiowave propagation; optimize your antenna system / antenna ground system)....
If I had a few dollars for every so-called "professionally installed" HF system on a cruising boat, that I've either seen myself or heard on-the-air, that are truly crap....well, I could probably repaint my Awl-Grip, buy new sails, and spend a couple years out sailing in grand style....seriously, I just cannot stress enough the importance of those 3 criteria above, along with not taking some "professional's" word for things! (and, of course, make sure the radio/tuner/antenna....the entire system....works perfectly, right there at the dock, before you sail away / before you pay the final amount for any install work/labor....please don't believe the BS that "it will work fine, away from the dock....it just doesn't work at the dock", cuz that is BS...)
End of opinion / rant ~~~~~~~~
Now, I'm sure the cynics out there are saying: "isn't this guy exactly the kind of 'expert' he's saying not to listen to?".....or maybe they're thinking: "who the heck does he think he is, I get my advice from real people that I know"
And, yes, I understand the conundrum.....how do you take advice from someone you don't know, especially if they are implying that other advice is wrong, without even knowing what you may have been told?
So, to be blunt....of course, I'm not saying I'm right and everyone else is wrong, that would be awfully arrogant.....so, what I am saying is:
---- there is a dearth of actual factual info out there about HF comms on-board smaller boats (not large ships)
---- as the market is small, and the knowledge / expertise needed is vast, the "cost" of having an HF comms expert on staff is prohibitive for most marine electronics companies
---- unfortunately the internet spreads false (albeit, mostly well intentioned) info, far and wide
---- follow the simple rules-of-thumb that I and others (Sailmail, etc.) have been sharing for decades
---- take on faith (just believe) that there is a plethora of devices that spew RFI these days, where just 10 - 15 years ago there weren't nearly as many {heck, COSPAS-SARSAT, INMARSAT, and Iridium, have all been working with governments worldwide to try to get them to enforce their product certification standards, so that they can maintain their current [weakened] link budgets, rather than be reduced into the noise....imagine the future where EPIRB's get bigger, so that they'd have enough power to be heard by the satellites over the man-made radio noises that all of our consumer devices spew out? Not something that COSPAS-SARSAT, etc. is looking forward to!}
---- And, if the results in the videos aren't enough....have a look at not just the videos and read the on-point postings that I make, but also take a look at my "radio bio" on qrz.com, etc....as well as look at my boat, and my systems and their capability (they might not be 2020/2021 new, but they are "modern" and functional, both independently and linked/connected).....but, please know that I still sail with the adage of "I'm on my own"....and I need to keep the sea water on the outside, keep the mast up and sails trimmed, keep the boat pointing/heading in the right direction, and keep myself and crew well fed/hydrated....and anything extra (electronics, comms, etc.) is luxury.... :) :) :)
3) Please have a look at these video Playlists, where the videos have been arranged in a logical order, to better assist layperson sailors, or novice radio operators, in understanding many aspects of HF radio...[both "ham", and "marine SSB" (which for the past 20 some years is actually: "MF/HF-DSC-SSB-FSK-Radiotelephone", but that's a rather large mouthful of acronyms and nomenclature to swallow for the average sailor, so most just still use the old "SSB" description to delineate it from "ham" radio)]....yes, some of the individual videos appear in multiple Playlists, so there is some duplication...just skip the ones you've already seen...
Maritime HF Comms (HF-SSB, etc.)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnN6ygtZ3h2nPNdApNsZDo_Jk3NB_Bt1y
HF-DSC Comms (an oft misunderstood part of the GMDSS, that has been with us for over 20 years now....and something that is of paramount importance if wishing to call another vessel [1000's and 1000's of merchant vessels plying the oceans daily that are required to monitor HF-DSC 24/7 and have HF-SSB radios at the ready, but not monitoring SSB Voice], and/or hundreds of coast stations, etc. etc...as well as provide a secondary source (after an EPIRB) of Distress signaling, etc.)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnN6ygtZ3h2n3z5nlv-ga2zYuPozhUXZX
Icom M-802 Instruction Videos (takes you step-by-step thru all the buttons / knobs, as well as all the SSB and DSC functions of the radio....also useful for owners of other radios, as many functions are the same)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnN6ygtZ3h2npivDjoFrC-8QKVyMb4tVr
Offshore Weather (offshore reception, etc. focused primarily on WeFax and ocean passages)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnN6ygtZ3h2mPZAx2vWzdjTJjHlChruyY
Offshore Sailing (just for fun, no real "radio info in these")
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnN6ygtZ3h2nbwAGh5DKgTCj15iyl6qoY
With the exception of a 25+ year old "GMDSS explanation video" (which I added some corrections to in the video description), all of these videos were recorded by me alone (with a standard-definition camcorder), with just my own extemporaneous narration and just the radio and my fingers....
FYI...3 things that set these videos apart from almost all others online (and far apart from any "classes" / "courses" you may desire to attend):
a) They are all done LIVE, as-it-happens, in the real-world, on-board a real offshore cruising boat (that I have personally sailed across the Atlantic, etc., a few times)....with no script/director, just the radio, my fingers, and my extemporaneous narration....no "simulations", nothing done "in a lab" nor "on a test bench", but again out in the real-world, just like everyone else uses their radios!
b) They are FREE for you to use and share with others, and I have no problem if you wish to download 'em and store 'em on your own computer to watch while on-board / at-sea / away from internet connection (just please don't use them to teach your own classes, nor try "sell" them)....nobody is trying to sell you anything, nor influence you to buy or subscribe to anything!!! (I make a living in professional communications --- radio comms, sat comm, internet, etc.....my sailing and my "ham radio" and "marine SSB" I do for fun and safety, not for money!!)
c) They are scrupulously designed and edited (albeit a bit roughly) to provide just the facts, with little to no "opinion", and as little bias as possible....[FYI, as I have made a good living in communications / sat comm, etc. I do love all of it....and, in addition to also having an Iridium 9555 sat phone, my brother and I were "alpha" and "beta" testers for Iridium back in the late "90's....so, I'm not "anti-sat-comm" at all.....but am very "pro HF-Radio"....and, I cannot imagine anyone not equipping with modern HF radio for offshore sailing....so, perhaps some "pro-radio" bias may be seen upfront, but I do try to make it "just the facts"...]
And, here you'll find page after page of reference material, almost all of it backed-up with factual / official sources and links...
Marine SSB Systems / Stuff (general info, as well as how-to better use/operate, troubleshoot/install)
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f13/marine-ssb-stuff-how-to-better-use-properly-install-ssb-and-troubleshoot-rfi-etc-133496.html
Marine SSB, proper installation tips/techniques
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f13/hf-ssb-radio-proper-installation-tips-techniques-etc-198305.html
GMDSS, HF-DSC, and how-to better use the GMDSS for offshore/cruising sailors
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f13/marine-hf-dsc-ssb-the-gmdss-communications-stool-legs-130640.html
ERIRB's, Distress Signaling, how to improve your odds of rescue in remote locales / open-ocean
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f13/epirbs-are-not-dead-epirb-activation-what-happens-how-to-improve-rescue-odds-146617.html
FYI, if like most cruising sailors / voyagers, you generally sail within a few hundred miles of these white dots and white tracks in this video.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV0iRkAATCY
Which are the worldwide positions/tracks of only some of the worlds SOLAS-grade vessels, over a 6 day period....(and if you're mostly beyond USCG helo range / beyond the "coastal lifeboat" reach of even many first world nations)....please remember that in a Distress situation that while activating an EPIRB is the first step, next or concurrently sending out a MF/HF-DSC Distress Alert is a great way of assuring two things:
1- You have a confirmation Distress Alert sent, that enforces the EPIRB alert, and almost certainly will trigger a response (even if the area you are in, has little to no SAR assets)....
2- You have alerted all SOLAS-grade vessels in range of your MF/HF-DSC signal (which would be within a few hundred miles, day-or-night, using 2187.5khz, and 8414.5khz DSC, day-n-night, and usually even much farther away)....and, it is these vessels that are the most likely rescue vessels / assets that will be the ones assisting/rescuing you!! {if you read the above thread and most especially the links therein, you'll see that even in the best-case-scenario it takes hours to find, contact, and vector, vessels in your area towards you....and, this can mean a vessel might be steaming along at 20+kts away from you, during those precious hours....}
And, even in non-Distress situations, when at sea.....do you require clean water, food, diesel fuel, medical assistance, etc.....or, maybe even just a good weather report, in order to find some good wind? If you're lucky and pass within sight of a large merchant vessel, you may be able to raise them on VHF (DSC or ch. 16 / 13), but what if you're unlucky enough to be farther than a few miles away, hmmm....now, you've got MF/HF-DSC, and you can send out an "All Ship's" "Urgency" (or "Safety") DSC Call, and if you do it on 2187.5khz, or another freq such as 4207khz, which might only be received by vessels within a few hundred miles....bingo, you've now got the assistance you needed...
Again, I'm not sure how/why sailors are steered away from equipping with a MF/HF-DSC-FSK-SSB Radio.....but, it just seems like a bad choice for those heading offshore / across oceans, etc...
https://www.itu.int/mmsapp/ShipStation/list
4) As for the commonly asked questions:
a) "do I need an 'SSB' if I have a sat phone?"
b) "which is better, 'SSB' or sat phone?" (which should actually be "PACTOR Modem" vs. a "sat phone"....but that's another discussion...although, personally I believe a pactor modem to be more useful/reliable than a sat phone, but if you've already got a sat phone, or are for sure equipping with one, a pactor modem is unnecessary....)
The truthful, definitive (actual real-world and engineering-based) answers to those questions rarely seems to satisfy some sailors.....so, please have a look at the basic answers here, and the very brief explanations here (and read the above discussion threads, and watch/listen to the videos), and you'll see what the straight scoop really is....
The basic/brief answers:
a) You don't actually "need" either.....many folks have safely and comfortably sailed the world without either, for many years / decades....
And, understand that these are two totally different systems, that do two completely different things, in two very different ways.....they are not competition with each other, but rather compliment each other...
--- A "marine SSB" (now-a-days a MF/HF-DSC-FSK-SSB Radiotelephone) is a "broadcast" device, i.e. your signal goes out to many / everyone within range (as your signal goes out to everyone at once, you do not need to call anyone in particular, but you can, of course, direct your call / alert, etc. to one person / one vessel / one coast station, or a group, or a network, etc. if your choose....or just let it go to everyone at once)
--- A "marine SSB" (as a "broadcast" device) allows you to communicate to a lot of folks....whether other vessels or coast stations, whether on "Cruising Nets", "weather nets", etc. or directly with a few coast stations (or on personal schedules)...
--- Most "marine SSB" also allow easy access and operation on the HF ham radio bands (assuming you are personally licensed for ham radio, 'cuz the "marine radio operators license" is not the same as the "ham radio license")....and some modern "marine SSB's", like the Icom M-802 are seamless / easy-peasy to use, and work very very well, on the ham bands....
--- A MF/HF-DSC-FSK-SSB Radiotelephone is part of the GMDSS, and as such is an easy and reliable means of two-way signaling other vessels and shore stations worldwide (via MF/HF-DSC), as well as an easy and reliable way of two-way communicating with other vessels and shore stations worldwide (via MF/HF-SSB, mostly after first signaling via DSC)
--- In addition to being part of the GMDSS (and hence a requirement for all vessels over 300 tons, and/or making int'l voyages/communications) Coast Guards and Maritime Authorities (US, Australia, NZ, etc.) also recommend HF-DSC-SSB gear on-board all private yachts sailing offshore and/or making ocean passages....and recommend use of HF-DSC for all initial signaling/contact {and fyi, Australia is planning on doing away with their HF Voice radio-watchstanding, which would leave only the USCG and Taupo Radio in NZ, as the last of the coast station hold-outs that still maintain a Voice Radio Watch....the rest of the 80+ HF Coast Stations and the 450+ MF Coast Stations, worldwide, maintain only a DSC Watch, and then use SSB Voice, etc. once initial contact/signaling is done via DSC....which is also the way all the 1000's and 1000's of SOLAS vessels maintain a MF/HF Radio Watch....and, of course this has been the case for all GMDSS signatory nations and all SOLAS vessels, for > 20 years now (required since Feb 1st, 1999)}
https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=cgcommsCall
http://www.bom.gov.au/marine/radio-sat/voice-services.shtml
https://www.amsa.gov.au/news-community/consultations/consultation-maritime-high-frequency-hf-radiotelephone-australia
file:///C:/Users/johnm/Downloads/hf_voice_monitoring_consultation_paper.pdf
http://maritimeradio.org/taupo-maritime-radio-zlm/
https://www.maritimenz.govt.nz/magazines/safe-seas-clean-seas/issue-52/issue-52-5.asp
https://www.maritimenz.govt.nz/commercial/documents/Radio-Handbook.pdf
https://www.noonsite.com/the-essential-role-of-hf-ssb-radio-in-ocean-cruising/
https://www.itu.int/mmsapp/ShipStation/list
FYI, the talk of the demise of the GMDSS has gone on for years....and, while the GMDSS is certainly "a horse, designed by committee", and could use some updating.....it's definitely not going anywhere....(new INMARSAT FB and Iridium Certus recently getting GMDSS certification, and the continuation of WeFax broadcasts worldwide [not technically a part of the GMDSS, but still used by a majority of ships at sea], as well as MSI SITOR broadcasts, complimenting the INMARSAT-C broadcasts, etc. etc....all point to "updates" of the GMDSS, not the demise of it...) So, I'm hesitant to ad links to pages that talk of such things....but...
http://weather.mailasail.com/Franks-Weather/Solas-Gmdss-And-Leisure-Sailors
http://weather.mailasail.com/Franks-Weather/Long-Range-Communications
http://weather.mailasail.com/Franks-Weather/Gmdss-What-Is-The-Future
--- A "marine SSB" is also a great way (easy-peasy and inexpensive) to receive HF WeFax (Weather Facsimile Charts and images) worldwide....and, for those unaware these are still considered the "gold standard" of offshore/hi-seas weather forecasts, as they are drawn by real humans, experienced maritime meteorologists (using the latest in satellite data, ship reports, buoy data, balloon data, etc., multiple computer models, etc., historical data...as well as the forecasters' personal experience / expertise with maritime weather systems).....this is in contrast to GRIB charts, which are simply raw computer model data (and unfortunately many sailors that do use GRIB's, use only one computer model)...
{Although, I use a separate / dedicated WeFax unit (a Furuno FAX-408, and before that an Alden MarineFaxIV, and in the 1970's an older Alden MarineFax unit for years), use of free software (JVComm32, GetFax, etc.) on your laptop, tablet, etc. and a simple wire connecting the headphone or speaker output of your "marine SSB" to the computer, gives you quick and easy HF WeFax Charts....see videos for details of this...}
Fyi, the last survey results from the IMO/ WMO/Jcomm (World Meteorological Organization / Joint Technical Commission for Oceanographic and Marine Meteorology) that I have, are from 2017, and even then we see that the majority of merchant vessels use NAVTEX as their primary MSI / Weather Information and forecast source, with HF-Radio and INMARSAT-C being next on the list (understandable, as the majority are making coastal or short international passages, rather than ocean crossings).....but when we look deeper, and look at those making ocean passages, etc. we see INMARSAT-C and HF-Radio (WeFax and SITOR) being the primary means of MSI / Weather Information when offshore!!! (and a surprising high number of comments on the poor reliability of "satellite internet"....) And, remember that these are larger vessels (most SOLAS-grade) plying the oceans professionally....so, they have the $$$$ and the regulations (GMDSS), to ensure good quality comms and weather info / Marine Safety Information (MSI)....so, why do small boat sailors wish to try something less-suited to the application (like a handheld sat phone, or a small portable satellite data unit like a "GO")?? I'm not 100% certain, but my guess is that they are "sold" the high-tech gizmos and "apps" by many marine electronics dealers who seek to exploit the mass consumer market of modern "smart phone users", rather than actually try to recommend the devices / services that would best suit that particular sailors application/desires (of course giving consideration to costs and the abilities of the sailor to properly use the equipment/services)...
BTW, please take note that all of the above uses / features of an HF radio ("marine SSB") are free of charge, worldwide!!! And, requires No expensive modems, nor specialty accessories at all!! No subscriptions, no fees, etc...
And while some will say that the equipment cost is high, it's usually about $3000 all-in, for new, state-of-the-art MF/HF-DSC-FSK-SSB Radiotelephone and remote tuner, and all cables/connectors/wires/antennas, etc....and sometimes less.....and, if buying a used M-802/AT-140, this cost is half or less.....those spouting off about $5k USD, are usually including the cost of the unnecessary $1800 - $2000 PACTOR modem, which would only be needed if you required easy-peasy business emails, or needed slightly faster low-speed data/email connection (4.8kb to 9.6kb), and did not have any sat comm gear... :)
--- A "sat phone" is a "point-to-point" device, i.e. you talk to one person, one-on-one (and you must know their phone number to call them / connect with them).....(a portable / handheld sat data device[such as IridiumGO], is the same....except that you need their email address, or phone number, to connect with them...)
--- If you have a external antenna for the sat phone and a way to connect it to your computer (a data kit), or a portable sat comm device (IridiumGO) you can get some very very slow-speed data service (2.4kb) to send/rec emails and some small attachments....and some use this to conduct some business and/or receive emails with GRIB chart data attached....but...but, unfortunately many fail to use them to receive WeFax charts (synoptic charts), so they end up spending money to get questionable (usually inferior) weather forecasts..... {fyi, yes raw computer model data is getting better, and short-term GRIB forecasts out 3 days is usually "okay"....but longer-term forecasts are notoriously erroneous....so, spending $$$$ to get inferior weather info just seems odd to me....but, again, this is usually due to the fact that few have actually explained things [about HF Radio, RFI, WeFax, GRIB's, etc.] to many sailors.....but, in any case....}
b) A Marine "SSB" (Marine MF/HF-DSC-SSB Radiotelephone) is better than a handheld sat phone (or portable sat comm data device) in most heavy-weather situations! Anyone that has ever tried to use a handheld sat phone (I have) or IridiumGO, etc. when bouncing around in a heavy sea, etc. knows quite quickly that a fixed-mount comm system is MUCH better/easier and much more reliable....(take note that you can also attain this ease/reliability if equipped with a fixed-mount professional maritime sat comm terminal....but that costs in the $5000 USD range, uses more electrical power and takes up valuable space on-board, below deck and on-deck....so, if you have the budget for it, have the space and electrical power, a fixed satcom terminal is also okay in heavy weather)
Of course, making a phone call is the toughest application....as this implies a seamless two-way communications link (like you'd get via HF Radio)....and, if you're doing it from an open space (an open cockpit or deck), then an Iridium handheld sat phone DOES work.....or, if you have an external antenna you can also make a call from below decks....
Now, if just sending a email, this is an easier application for inexpensive sat comm (handheld sat phone w/ data kit...or an IridiumGO), and while the speed is very slow, they do work well...
As you see....a "sat phone" or a "GO" is a point-to-point device.....and, if you need to make business calls (or send/rec business emails) when offshore and/or in remote locales, then a sat phone is a good choice....(especially since the loss of WLO/Shipcom radio, and the reduction in services from Australian HF Voice network, and I think the recent reduction of service of Brunei Bay Radio???)
Although, I suspect that the original poster has long since found the info / training he desired, I hope this helps many of you here. :)
Fair winds.
John, KA4WJA https://www.qrz.com/db/KA4WJA
s/v Annie Laurie, WDB6927 https://jerodisys.com/C470/foto_bot.htm
MMSI# 366933110 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfJaZzjVw7XkGBPdimLNBrg/playlists
P.S. I also put together a VHF-DSC Playlist, which just has one of my videos as an intro, and then a few mariner training videos showing VHF-DSC in use in the classroom...so, for those that might desire some basic VHF-DSC info / training, here ya' go...
VHF-DSC
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnN6ygtZ3h2m-IejYg7J6QugtO2epizxF
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