By DariaBlackwell - 7 Jun 2012
One of the things we want to add in the coming year is a watermaker. We researched them a few years back and were leaning toward a Spectra (http://www.spectrawatermakers.com/), but we saw lots of new models at the Southampton Boat Show. Now we are confused again. We would appreciate any advice, pro or con, about watermakers with which you have personal experience. Others to consider - any to stay away from.
|
By archive - 10 Jun 2012
We have a Spectra Newport 400 and have used it nearly full time over the past 6 years.
We have had minor problems and the technical people in the California headquarters answer emails immediately, with excellent answers and when I needed a small part it was sent that day. Their "how to toubleshoot" manual is great, easy to use and seems to cover everything.
We are now in New Zealand and had to have our first real work done on it. The local service person had been trained in California. I know in the Med, in the Caribbean and now New Zealand finding trained Spectra people is possible.
We continue to be very happy with it and would buy a Spectra again.
|
By chrisdevans - 16 Jun 2012
Hi Daria
we have a Dessalator D100, AC model . Makes 100L/hr and has been running flawlessly for two years. Uses around 2-2.5AAc (on 220V system) when operating. Pretty much maintenance free, and what maintenance is required is very simple (filter changes/rinsing of membranes etc), totally reliable so far and used pretty regularly as we live aboard full time. Small footprint and easy to install.
I know I am tempting fate, but of all machinery aboard, this has been an absolute dream. Obviously though, I would never recommend to anyone else, just pass on my observations/experience!!
Chris
S V Tulu.
|
By DariaBlackwell - 22 Jun 2012
Chris & Jim,
Thanks for your insights. You 've both been using yours continuously from the sound of your answers. We may actually be laying up over the winters while in the Med over the next few years. Were there periods when you didn 't use your watermakers, and if yes, what was your experience with "pickling"?
|
By chrisdevans - 25 Jun 2012
You are correct, we have never 'pickled '. I believe the process is very simple with a chemical cartridge to insert in the main raw filter and just wash through to the membranes with fresh water, and then rinse at start of use again. We rinse in fresh water from tank every month for 15-20 minutes if not in regular use, just to keep membranes fresh and moist - all seems good so far.
Good luck with your deliberations
Chris
SV Tulu
|
By Wild Bird - 11 Aug 2016
I love watermakers. The freedom they provide and the comfort of knowing where your water comes from is great.
I built our watermaker from Ebay parts. The total cost was £1500. We make 130 litres/hour in the Caribbean warm waters. Having had a12v system on our last boat i didn 't want to go that route again.
The current watermaker runs off the generator although if we didn 't have a generator i would have gone engine driven. Our watermaker consists of a 1.5kw 220v motor and a cat 247 pump. We currently use a 40" and a 21" membrane. The system has no electronics and the only electrics are the power supply to the motor. The system is super simple and we love it like that. This summer we plan to add a second 40" membrane that should take our output close to 200 litres/ hour for no more power consumption.
The reason we went for this set up is the inherent problems with 12v installations. To achieve reasonable output from the watermaker, say 50-70 litres per hour you are likely to be pulling serious amps at 12v even with the energy recovery pumps that are typically installed on these systems. It is not unusually to see 40amps at 12v. The size of cables at this kind of current is getting pretty meaty. You need to use tinned wire as the risk of high resistance in plain copper is a possibly in the moist environment of a boat.
Finding a reliable 12v motor that can deal with this load is a major problem. There just aren 't many reliable 40amp 12v motors and they are expensive. Compare to the availability of standard 1.5kw motors and the 12v motors seem to be a rip off. You can buy a standard 1.5kw motor just about anywhere in the world.
Just about all the guys we have spoke to that run 12v watermakers run there engine whilst they are making water. The reason is two fold. Because the 12v watermakers make so much less water than a 220v system you need to run them twice as long as least. Whilst you are making water you are likely to be depleting your batteries unless you have a very large solar set up. Even if you solar or wind turbine can keep up with the watermaker load you are not charging your batteries so you still end up with depleted batteries on the day you run the watermaker. In my opinion, if you need to run the engine then a 12v watermaker was the wrong solution. 12v systems are inherently less reliable and complex when you start to use high amps.
The alternative would be to install a cat pump off the engine using an electromagnetic clutch and a pair of 40" membranes. This would give circa 170-180 litres per hour. The run time of the engine would be about half the time you would spend with the 12v system if you needed to run the engine to keep up with the battery demand and you would make more than twice as much water. The system would have no electronics or electrics apart from the power supply to engage the clutch. Have a look at the Echotec watermakers. They make a nice simple watermaker that i would have purchased if i had built my own on very similar lines.
|
By Hasbun - 15 Aug 2016
While we do not have the manual skills necessary to build one, we very much appreciated the videos at
http://www.cruiserowaterandpower.com/Water_Maker_Videos.php
This company sells standard parts, that could also be sourced anywhere in the world from others, so one can build water makers of various capacities.
Anyway, we used these videos to learn about water makers in general and to learn to not fear our Desalator water maker, which works quite well.
|
By alanfym - 24 Jan 2017
In 2006 bought a new Desalator Duo, 12v and 250vac. Smart and great flexibility power-wise but freewheel pulleys "slipped" (poor interference fit freewheel to casting) and also auto "purity" test software limit set too high. Good response from UK agent but not much use 1000 miles from Antigua. Yes there are work-rounds, but not convenient. Several software upgrades, and new pulleys supplied without problem from UK - probably later Duo 's more reliable as a result of feedback.. As usual KISS comes to mind - and will apply to imminent new installation.
|
By the Admiral - 1 Apr 2017
I have fitted a few of these in the past and had the same problems that you describe. The pulley/clutch arrangement was a pain and in the end was welded together as a fix. The other issue was the pressure control. It was almost impossible to leave it without the pressure creeping up and causing the unit to stop. At least this function worked. For our own boat I built my own system. Basic and uncomplicated. 140 ltrs/hr and reliable.
With the OCC in mind I called it Ocean Water and even used the Club colours.
|
By alanfym - 1 Apr 2017
And I thought it was just me unlucky! ditto the weld job and 240v ac rules!
|
By DariaBlackwell - 31 Dec 2018
I know this is an old thread but I just came across this company that champions building watermakers with non-proprietary parts. Does anyone have experience with Cruise RO? http://www.cruiserowaterandpower.com/
|
By Robert.Heath - 2 Jan 2019
We have been very pleased with the performance of our Dessalator D100 Freedom fitted to ‘Kered’. Only minor issues with the installation but the unit itself has worked very well and produces about 120L/Hr in the Caribbean.
|
By DariaBlackwell - 22 Aug 2021
Good post by Behan and Jamie Gifford on Totem's switch from DC to AC.
https://www.sailingtotem.com/blog/watermakers-essential-for-cruising
|
By Dick - 22 Aug 2021
+x
Hi Daria, I wrote this a few years ago for another venue. Dick
Hi all,
In a private comm, I was asked my thoughts with regard to watermakers, so I pulled together my comments from the past.
Watermakers:
Watermakers (WM) are, to my mind and experience, not essential to any adequately equipped cruising boat: fresh water is generally, these days, pretty easy to come by. The few occasions you might have to pay certainly does not compare to the cost of the w/m, not to mention the attendant installation and maintenance and power draw when running a WM. You might have to go out of your way to find water, though.
That said, having a WM in southern waters (Central America, Caribbean, Bahamas, The Mediterranean) was a wonderful convenience and tipped the scales away from “camping” in a way that I really appreciated. This, in large part, is because we were almost exclusively at anchor. In northern waters (Northern Europe, Canada), we have been on town wharfs and marinas etc. frequently enough so that we have not needed to use our WM in ~~8 years (we use it periodically to keep it functional). These areas, we have also not worried about quality: it has been universally good. I charcoal filter all water before it goes into the tanks, for taste and to keep any possible sediment out of the tanks.
A word about water usage. We lived without a WM for years in areas without good water. We collected water on deck (amazingly easy and functional on many boats including ours, a Valiant 42), but generally just got it where we could. Guests always killed us and it was after a Christmas with 3 children that we bought water, our one and only time. So, we learned to be careful, but, be sure, even conserving, we were in no way “camping”: we were quite comfortable.
In waters where we swam a few times a day, our before-dinner ritual was a swim which included soap and shampoo. A WM allowed us to feel comfortable having an on-deck (with an extended shower hose) fresh water rinse-off of the salt which was a lovely luxury. At that point we were using 3g per day (crew of 2) which (see below) translated into one hour of WM running every 2 days. This also gybed well as WMs like to be used regularly and a 2-day interim meant that there was no wasted water: at start the water made was good. (A longer break between operation would mean that the first water out of the membrane would be a bit smelly and thrown away). With other WM manufacturers (than Katadyne, see below), those with many bells and whistles that do everything for you: this could be up to a quart or more of wasted water each running. When left for longer periods (dirty anchorages, marinas) we would run the WM till the water did not smell (~~1/2 quart depending) and then taste it. Hands on admittedly, but worked fine and allows for a much simpler WM unit.
So, our water use is on the low side for many cruisers, but in no way were we deprived or compromised in life style.
Alchemy’s WM is a Katadyne (aka PUR in the past) 160E, the biggest unit made in 2003 (may still be) and modular. I shoe-horned it in the space behind the port aft settee cushion with the sea water feed going through 30 and then 5-micron filters and then to the pump (now I might consider a petrochemical filter as some anchorages were dirty in that way, but I have not explored their efficacy.) I draw off a thru-hull deep in the bilge that precludes contaminants that float and contributes to good sea water: but I am aware that oil etc. can be anywhere and was careful. It can fill either tank via a diverter valve.
It has worked flawlessly and for 3-4 years was almost our sole supplier of water for 6 months a year and periodically since then. It has had one re-build, maybe not necessary, but we were in the vicinity of where it could be easily done in England. I thought they would condemn the membrane, but they said it was still good. Very little use the last 10 years.
The Katadyne units are no-frills units. There are none of the bells and whistles that I hear being bandied about with the major brands. For example: initial-made water is collected manually in a tub and after a few minutes we put it in a cup and taste it. If good (always was) we divert it into the chosen tank. (Even this was unnecessary if we had made water within the last 2 days.) More sophisticated units do this for you: often at the expense of wasting water and certainly at greater monetary expense initially and providing one more thing to go wrong.
Also, there is no “back-flush” nor other add-ons. I am unsure what they contribute, but I know friends have talked about their added maintenance even to the point of keeping their units going in winter storage (in warmer climes).
It should be said that Katadyne is more expensive amp-wise to run: the amps per gallon is higher than the more sophisticated units. For my unit, it needed 20A/12v to run and made ~~6-7 gph. Fewer amps per gallon sounds great, but in practice may not make much difference. I have a DC generator which needed regular running anyway. Then there were those occasions where I powered a few hours and could just leave the WM going. This provided water the majority of the time and occasionally, I just ran it off the battery bank, but not often.
Were I to start over again, I would still use Katadyne, but would opt for the PowerSurvivor 40E model (also able to be used by hand/manually) and use two of them: one for each water tank. This would provide redundancy and would ease installation, even though installing 2 WMs, as this model is far smaller and not modular which cuts down on the connections considerably. I would run one day and the other the next.
The advantages are redundancy (especially for those dependent on r/o water, such as a long offshore passage). The manual operation could come in handy in an emergency. Each unit would fit snuggly behind the settee cushions in that triangular space (for V-42s) just above the water tanks. Being small and not modular, were repairs necessary this smaller self- contained package could be easily sent for repairs. A huge advantage is size: many sophisticated units are far far bigger.
The disadvantages are few: more amps used per gallon made and fewer gallons per run time: neither a big deal from my point of view, but as your fresh water use escalates, these disadvantages gain in importance. This is offset, again to my mind, by Katadyne’s utter simplicity: turn it on and it makes water. Use it every few days (depends on ambient air and water temperature, warm air/water every 2-3 days, cold air/water 5-7 days) and that is all. Pickling it takes mixing a biocide into a gallon of water and running it through the unit. Done and dusted for one year.
Come back with questions/comments/ etc.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
|
By Neill.Hogarth - 5 Sep 2021
Just to add a "different point of view" to those who suggest 230V against 12V.
We have a Spectra PowerSurvivor that runs on 12V.
It have been in daily use since 19 months and always runs from solar / wind. We hardly ever switch the motor on and wouldn't want to do so just to make water.
We produce an average of 10 liters a day which is enough for the two of us.
A watermaker without a generator is possible.
https://buruwang.org/2020/11/19/one-year-of-water-making-katadyn-powersurvivor/
|
By Dick - 5 Sep 2021
+xJust to add a "different point of view" to those who suggest 230V against 12V. We have a Spectra PowerSurvivor that runs on 12V. It have been in daily use since 19 months and always runs from solar / wind. We hardly ever switch the motor on and wouldn't want to do so just to make water. We produce an average of 10 liters a day which is enough for the two of us. A watermaker without a generator is possible. https://buruwang.org/2020/11/19/one-year-of-water-making-katadyn-powersurvivor/
Hi Neill, Agree on the 12v and also a fan of Katadyne. But you called the Power Survivor as made by Spectra. Did Katadyne and Spectra merge or join or something? Thanks, Dick
|
By Neill.Hogarth - 6 Sep 2021
+x+xJust to add a "different point of view" to those who suggest 230V against 12V. We have a Spectra PowerSurvivor that runs on 12V. It have been in daily use since 19 months and always runs from solar / wind. We hardly ever switch the motor on and wouldn't want to do so just to make water. We produce an average of 10 liters a day which is enough for the two of us. A watermaker without a generator is possible. https://buruwang.org/2020/11/19/one-year-of-water-making-katadyn-powersurvivor/ Hi Neill, Agree on the 12v and also a fan of Katadyne. But you called the Power Survivor as made by Spectra. Did Katadyne and Spectra merge or join or something? Thanks, Dick
Hello Dick,
The Katadyn Group bought Spectra. Therefore the Spectra PowerSurvivor is now a Katadyn product.
But (in my opinion) until now, neither the Katadyn distribution, nor the service have accepted the PowerSurvivor.
When we first received our device it would not work. Katadyn service in Switzerland was of no help. It was the Spectra Support in the USA who offered fantastic detailed help. It finally turned out to be a production fault. Finding and solving the problem had cost us $500 which Katadyn only agreed to pay after our supplier - Ocean Chandlery - had some stern words with them.
The device stopped working properly at the end of 2020. Once again the Swiss service offered nothing beyond "go to a dealer". Great idea. I had told them I was in Raivavae! Spectra service once again helped us to diagnose and solve the problem. We needed a new membrane which Katadyne UK appeared unable to source. It took a call to the Swiss headquarters to get one to us.
I like the product. I love the Spectra USA support. Katadyn support in Switzerland appear to have no idea what the device is, how to service it and don't seem to care.
Neill
|
By Dick - 6 Sep 2021
+x+x+xJust to add a "different point of view" to those who suggest 230V against 12V. We have a Spectra PowerSurvivor that runs on 12V. It have been in daily use since 19 months and always runs from solar / wind. We hardly ever switch the motor on and wouldn't want to do so just to make water. We produce an average of 10 liters a day which is enough for the two of us. A watermaker without a generator is possible. https://buruwang.org/2020/11/19/one-year-of-water-making-katadyn-powersurvivor/ Hi Neill, Agree on the 12v and also a fan of Katadyne. But you called the Power Survivor as made by Spectra. Did Katadyne and Spectra merge or join or something? Thanks, Dick Hello Dick, The Katadyn Group bought Spectra. Therefore the Spectra PowerSurvivor is now a Katadyn product. But (in my opinion) until now, neither the Katadyn distribution, nor the service have accepted the PowerSurvivor. When we first received our device it would not work. Katadyn service in Switzerland was of no help. It was the Spectra Support in the USA who offered fantastic detailed help. It finally turned out to be a production fault. Finding and solving the problem had cost us $500 which Katadyn only agreed to pay after our supplier - Ocean Chandlery - had some stern words with them. The device stopped working properly at the end of 2020. Once again the Swiss service offered nothing beyond "go to a dealer". Great idea. I had told them I was in Raivavae! Spectra service once again helped us to diagnose and solve the problem. We needed a new membrane which Katadyne UK appeared unable to source. It took a call to the Swiss headquarters to get one to us. I like the product. I love the Spectra USA support. Katadyn support in Switzerland appear to have no idea what the device is, how to service it and don't seem to care. Neill Hi Neill,
Interesting. Good to know. Field reports are always the best information. Dick
|
By Peter.Basilides - 4 Oct 2021
Upon recommendation of a friend with two years positive experience, I had a Schenker watermaker from Italy installed. Have now only 2 months rcpermyself buu very happy with it. Their Modulat range should fit in small spaces. They can run on batteries or genset
|
|