By Alex_Blackwell - 26 Apr 2019
Has anyone got good, bad or ugly experience with shallow draft yachts?
We are looking at doing more coastal cruising and want to get into places with skinny water (our currrent boat draws 8.5 feet. Ovnis have come up as have other makes.
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By Dick - 26 Apr 2019
+xHas anyone got good, bad or ugly experience with shallow draft yachts? We are looking at doing more coastal cruising and want to get into places with skinny water (our currrent boat draws 8.5 feet. Ovnis have come up as have other makes.
Hi Alex,
I do not have a lot of experience in a variety of shallow draft boats, but I would think that Ovnis do check a lot of shallow water boxes while retaining the ability to be excellent offshore boats, something I believe is not so clear with other shallow draft vessels.
I will report that a friend with many years of sailing the Bahamas and worrying about going aground (and not doing so) bought himself a shallow draft boat and promptly went aground with regularity. Go figure.
Let us know the results of your researches.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
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By bbalme - 27 Apr 2019
+xHas anyone got good, bad or ugly experience with shallow draft yachts? We are looking at doing more coastal cruising and want to get into places with skinny water (our currrent boat draws 8.5 feet. Ovnis have come up as have other makes.
Will you miss the pointing ability afforded by your deep keel? Or are you slowing down in your old age Alex?? :-)
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By Dick - 27 Apr 2019
+x+xHas anyone got good, bad or ugly experience with shallow draft yachts? We are looking at doing more coastal cruising and want to get into places with skinny water (our currrent boat draws 8.5 feet. Ovnis have come up as have other makes. Will you miss the pointing ability afforded by your deep keel? Or are you slowing down in your old age Alex?? :-)
Hi Bill,
I think pointing ability may, indeed, be compromised with many shallow draft boats, especially those with a fixed keel. However, I believe that there may be no compromise on well-designed centerboard boats such as the Ovni and others of its ilk. Dick
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By PhilipH2 - 27 Apr 2019
+x+x+xHas anyone got good, bad or ugly experience with shallow draft yachts? We are looking at doing more coastal cruising and want to get into places with skinny water (our currrent boat draws 8.5 feet. Ovnis have come up as have other makes. Will you miss the pointing ability afforded by your deep keel? Or are you slowing down in your old age Alex?? :-) Hi Bill, I think pointing ability may, indeed, be compromised with many shallow draft boats, especially those with a fixed keel. However, I believe that there may be no compromise on well-designed centerboard boats such as the Ovni and others of its ilk. Dick
Hi from an OVNI 395 owner. We have 60,000nm, a circumnavigation, 1000nm round trip on the Amazon, the Hudson River/Erie and Oswego Canals and the Bahamas. Brilliant boat. We would not leave home without one. Pointing? Gentlemen and ladies do not sail to windward, for goodness sake. However, if you must, our Ovni tacks through 110 degrees. How much more do you want? Are you in a hurry? This is the OCC and an OVNI should be the boat of choice :-) :-) Cheers Phil
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By Dick - 27 Apr 2019
+x+x+x+xHas anyone got good, bad or ugly experience with shallow draft yachts? We are looking at doing more coastal cruising and want to get into places with skinny water (our currrent boat draws 8.5 feet. Ovnis have come up as have other makes. Will you miss the pointing ability afforded by your deep keel? Or are you slowing down in your old age Alex?? :-) Hi Bill, I think pointing ability may, indeed, be compromised with many shallow draft boats, especially those with a fixed keel. However, I believe that there may be no compromise on well-designed centerboard boats such as the Ovni and others of its ilk. Dick Hi from an OVNI 395 owner. We have 60,000nm, a circumnavigation, 1000nm round trip on the Amazon, the Hudson River/Erie and Oswego Canals and the Bahamas. Brilliant boat. We would not leave home without one. Pointing? Gentlemen and ladies do not sail to windward, for goodness sake. However, if you must, our Ovni tacks through 110 degrees. How much more do you want? Are you in a hurry? This is the OCC and an OVNI should be the boat of choice :-) :-) Cheers Phil
Hi Phil, Always good to have a first hand field report. Dick
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By bbalme - 27 Apr 2019
+x+x+x+xHas anyone got good, bad or ugly experience with shallow draft yachts? We are looking at doing more coastal cruising and want to get into places with skinny water (our currrent boat draws 8.5 feet. Ovnis have come up as have other makes. Will you miss the pointing ability afforded by your deep keel? Or are you slowing down in your old age Alex?? :-) Hi Bill, I think pointing ability may, indeed, be compromised with many shallow draft boats, especially those with a fixed keel. However, I believe that there may be no compromise on well-designed centerboard boats such as the Ovni and others of its ilk. Dick Hi from an OVNI 395 owner. We have 60,000nm, a circumnavigation, 1000nm round trip on the Amazon, the Hudson River/Erie and Oswego Canals and the Bahamas. Brilliant boat. We would not leave home without one. Pointing? Gentlemen and ladies do not sail to windward, for goodness sake. However, if you must, our Ovni tacks through 110 degrees. How much more do you want? Are you in a hurry? This is the OCC and an OVNI should be the boat of choice :-) :-) Cheers Phil
Yawn!
What Gentlemen?
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By PhilipH2 - 28 Apr 2019
+x+x+x+x+xHas anyone got good, bad or ugly experience with shallow draft yachts? We are looking at doing more coastal cruising and want to get into places with skinny water (our currrent boat draws 8.5 feet. Ovnis have come up as have other makes. Will you miss the pointing ability afforded by your deep keel? Or are you slowing down in your old age Alex?? :-) Hi Bill, I think pointing ability may, indeed, be compromised with many shallow draft boats, especially those with a fixed keel. However, I believe that there may be no compromise on well-designed centerboard boats such as the Ovni and others of its ilk. Dick Hi from an OVNI 395 owner. We have 60,000nm, a circumnavigation, 1000nm round trip on the Amazon, the Hudson River/Erie and Oswego Canals and the Bahamas. Brilliant boat. We would not leave home without one. Pointing? Gentlemen and ladies do not sail to windward, for goodness sake. However, if you must, our Ovni tacks through 110 degrees. How much more do you want? Are you in a hurry? This is the OCC and an OVNI should be the boat of choice :-) :-) Cheers Phil Yawn! What
Oh Bill, really, really. Incidentally I omitted to say that
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By PhilipH2 - 28 Apr 2019
+x+x+x+x+x+xHas anyone got good, bad or ugly experience with shallow draft yachts? We are looking at doing more coastal cruising and want to get into places with skinny water (our currrent boat draws 8.5 feet. Ovnis have come up as have other makes. Will you miss the pointing ability afforded by your deep keel? Or are you slowing down in your old age Alex?? :-) Hi Bill, I think pointing ability may, indeed, be compromised with many shallow draft boats, especially those with a fixed keel. However, I believe that there may be no compromise on well-designed centerboard boats such as the Ovni and others of its ilk. Dick Hi from an OVNI 395 owner. We have 60,000nm, a circumnavigation, 1000nm round trip on the Amazon, the Hudson River/Erie and Oswego Canals and the Bahamas. Brilliant boat. We would not leave home without one. Pointing? Gentlemen and ladies do not sail to windward, for goodness sake. However, if you must, our Ovni tacks through 110 degrees. How much more do you want? Are you in a hurry? This is the OCC and an OVNI should be the boat of choice :-) :-) Cheers Phil Yawn! What Oh Bill, really, really. Incidentally I omitted to say that
I got waylaid and post went off before I finished. So as I was saying, incidentally I omitted to say that once the wind is abaft the beam the keel comes up. This makes exceedingly comfortable sailing as the boat will not round up into the wind. Magic.😎
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By Michael.Bennett - 3 Jun 2019
Hi Alex
I have just seen your post to OCC Forum. We are just putting our Southerly 38 on the market. Let me know if you are interested and I will send you some more information.
Regards,
Fiona
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By Alex_Blackwell - 3 Jun 2019
+xHi Alex I have just seen your post to OCC Forum. We are just putting our Southerly 38 on the market. Let me know if you are interested and I will send you some more information. Regards, Fiona
Thanks Fiona
do, by all means send me the information.
Just please understand that we are not starting to look for a new bot before our current boat is sold.
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By Michael.Bennett - 4 Jun 2019
OK thanks. Will send via email.
Fiona
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By DariaBlackwell - 7 Jun 2019
I posted the same query on the Facebook group page and got the following responses, re-posted here to keep from losing them.
Bob Hathaway
Bob Hathaway Alubat Ovni range are very tough and sail well
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Gorm Gon
Gorm Gon Pogo, more performance oriented compared to Ovni. Garcia is also an option similar to Ovni
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David Zaharik
David Zaharik I purchased a Boreal 47, they come in models starting at 44. Draft is 1.02m board up and 2.48 board down... super strong, great sailing vessel.
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David Zaharik
David Zaharik We plan on taking down the Brittany coast in the spring and then into the canal system at Bordeaux to the Med
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Daria Blackwell
Daria Blackwell David Zaharik I'd love to hear how that goes as it has always been Alex's dream to do that.
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Jeanette Liljekvist
Jeanette Liljekvist We have an Allures, it is with centerboard up 1,05 m and down 3 m - we love our boat - Jeanette on s/y Bushpoint
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Neil McCubbin
Neil McCubbin We have sailed our Garcia Passsoa 47 from the high Arctic to the Caribbean over the past 14 years. 1.1 m draft board up and 2.5 down. We beat most cruising boats our size. Shallow draft is good but biggest advantage is sea kindly motion and does not broach when the board is up. Sailing to windward is OK and off the win she flies. A bit heavier and stronger than Boreal or OVNI
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David Zaharik
David Zaharik I think I would argue the strength between a Garcia and Boreal... I spent two years examining both... they are both beautiful but I went with all aluminum... Boreal.
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Neil McCubbin
Neil McCubbin Lots of photos of Passsoa 47 at http://McCubbin.ca. Feel free to email if you wish to discuss
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Caroline Woodhead
Caroline Woodhead Whitby is only 1.5m so we have even been through French canals
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By DariaBlackwell - 19 Jun 2019
Our current boat, a Bowman 57, has an 8.5-foot draft which has limited our ability to get into some places we'd like to visit. Hence the query. We're also looking to downsize a wee bit to about 40 feet. Those sails are getting heavier every year.
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By PhilipH2 - 19 Jun 2019
+xOur current boat, a Bowman 57, has an 8.5-foot draft which has limited our ability to get into some places we'd like to visit. Hence the query. We're also looking to downsize a wee bit to about 40 feet. Those sails are getting heavier every year.
Our OVNI 395 - 12.3metres LOA - 2.1metres centreboard down, 0.7m with centreboard up and the rudder folded, and hard chine with flat bottom means you can take the ground.
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By Michael.Bennett - 19 Jun 2019
Hi Daria,
As mentioned above, our Southerly 38 has a lifting keel and can take the ground. It is also now for sale - see boats for sale on the OCC main website. Happy to supply further information if required.
Fiona & Michael
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By David.Tyler - 1 Jul 2019
In the last forty years, I've owned four cruisers - and the one thing that they've had in common is a draught of about one metre. I've come to believe that this the optimum fixed draught, if there is such a thing. Enough grip of the water not to get unduly blown around when trying to berth in a marina, for example, but not so much grip of the water as not to ride the punches when those big breaking seas are coming at you. In the smaller boats, that was all that was needed, as they were twin-keelers. Getting nearer to the size under discussion, Tystie is a 35ft bilgeboarder, co-designed by myself and David Thomas, with a 'V' shaped midship section. I'd like to put in a word for the bilgeboarder (two boards, either hinged like centreboards or up-and-down like daggerboards). They are made asymmetric and slightly toed-in, so actively lift to windward when the lee one is down and the windward one is raised. And they are not prone to getting jammed with stones when you take the ground. On Tystie, the deepest fixed part is the skeg, and this means that in wild going downwind, she feels a lot safer and more manageable than deeper boats that tend to trip over the keel and broach. I sailed her 85,000 miles in all the oceans except the Indian, and and also gunkholed in places barred to deeper draught boats. She is Cat A rated, so getting that rating in a 40ft boat wouldn't be a problem. I think that David Thomas designed a bigger one, after Tystie, but otherwise, a new design would have to be commissioned, I suspect.
Anyway, now I've downsized to a 23ft twin keeler, a Hunter Duette. I'm currently cruising in the Isles of Scilly, where I enjoy the ability to scoot over the shallow sandy flats between the islands at minimal rise of tide, demonstrating the advantage of shoal draught very well. The deeper boats have to wait for HW, or go the long way round.
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By John.Ferguson - 16 Jun 2020
+xHas anyone got good, bad or ugly experience with shallow draft yachts? We are looking at doing more coastal cruising and want to get into places with skinny water (our currrent boat draws 8.5 feet. Ovnis have come up as have other makes.
Maybe replying a bit late to this but I have a Koopmans 46’ Yacht, Dutch built in aluminium with hydraulic lifting keel. With the keel up you can sit her on the bottom not that I’ve needed to do that as with the keel up the draft is only 1.5 metres and with the keel down 2.5 metres, very useful in Denmark last year where many marinas were in less than 2 metres and in The Scillies the year before that where some passages are even less than that.
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By rhudson - 4 Jul 2020
No experience with Ovnis, but I've circumnavigated the Americas in a 15m/50' Damien II steel lifting-keel (all the boat's ballast is in the centerboard/lifting keel) boat.
I really like being able to get into shallow places (draft with the board up is 1.3m(<5'), sailing draft is 3.2m/10.5'). This has helped in getting into many marinas, and has been most useful when in poorly charted areas, as going slowly and relying on the centerboard to lift if it hits a rock helps avoid going hard aground.
I like the ease of drying out upright and being fairly close to the ground.
As I see it, the main downside of a centerboard or lifting keel is the additional complexity. There's nothing to go wrong with a (welded-on) keel, and painting a keel is straightforward--either hauled out on jackstands/cradle, or drying the boat out against a wall or on it's side on a beach.
As well as a locking pin, my lifting keel has 4 screw pads that hold it in place, horizontally, when it is down, to keep it from slopping around in the centerboard case underway. I don't know what other centerboard boats do to hold the board in position when down, but that is a complication in the process of raising and lowering the board--something a keelboat never needs to consider.
I've painted the centerboard in a marina that had a pit for deep keels & centerboards, which was very handy, but I've not seen many of these pits. I've painted the centerboard by having a crane lift it out (it weighs about 5 tons, and the centerboard trunk goes to the deck, so after some unbolting of brackets, it can be lifted out). I've painted most of the centerboard with a roller on a stick while the board was simply raised, but I can't reach all of it that way. I've not yet careened (leaned the boat over) on a beach to paint the centerboard.
I really like having a centerboard/lifting keel, but no matter how one does the maintenance, it will be somewhat more complicated with a centerboard. I think whether that's worth it or not depends where one sails (most popular places are well-charted, so no need to "go slow and let the centerboard hit any rocks" as is useful in poorly-charted areas) and how much one enjoys going into shallow places.
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By Alex_Blackwell - 4 Jul 2020
Thank you very much, Richard
your boat sounds interesting, though a good bit bigger than what we would eventually like to have.
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By Rod.Halling - 15 Jul 2020
+xHas anyone got good, bad or ugly experience with shallow draft yachts? We are looking at doing more coastal cruising and want to get into places with skinny water (our currrent boat draws 8.5 feet. Ovnis have come up as have other makes.
Hi Alex, I owned an Ovni 385 from new for seven years and concur with Phil. She was a really good boat, but for us the lack of pointing ability (especially in the Med where the wind always seems to be on the nose) became a bit of an issue. The upsides are legion - sitting on the beach in the Scilly Isles, when all the deep keelers are wobbling about at anchor in the "roads", flying downwind with the plate up, easy fitment of "green energy" on the aft wing... We certainly did "go aground" a fair bit - mostly when we meant to, but sometimes just taking a chance, but never worried about landing on a rock as the bottom is SOLID aluminium - 10mm thick. If you are interested, talk to Stephen & Francine Johnson of North Sea Maritime - www.northseamaritime.co.uk - they are the importers and experts for UK and Ireland. They usually have a range of used boats and are completely trustworthy - lovely people.
We have gone the opposite way to you - if you remember, we were interested in Aleria before you put her on the market. We need something larger and went for an Oyster 55 (1995) just before you put Aleria on sale. Very happy with a boat that can tack through 90 degrees in 50 knots... Loads of room for the nippers too!
If you don't fancy an Ovni, the Southerly boats seem to point somewhat better, but lack the incredible strength of an all aluminium design. "Distant Shores" on Youtube seem to have loved all their Southerlys. Best of luck with the search! If you're ever in Devon/Cornwall, drop me a line - it would be lovely to meet up.
All the best,
Rod
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By Alex_Blackwell - 16 Jul 2020
+x+xHas anyone got good, bad or ugly experience with shallow draft yachts? We are looking at doing more coastal cruising and want to get into places with skinny water (our currrent boat draws 8.5 feet. Ovnis have come up as have other makes. Hi Alex, I owned an Ovni 385 from new for seven years and concur with Phil. She was a really good boat, but for us the lack of pointing ability (especially in the Med where the wind always seems to be on the nose) became a bit of an issue. The upsides are legion - sitting on the beach in the Scilly Isles, when all the deep keelers are wobbling about at anchor in the "roads", flying downwind with the plate up, easy fitment of "green energy" on the aft wing... We certainly did "go aground" a fair bit - mostly when we meant to, but sometimes just taking a chance, but never worried about landing on a rock as the bottom is SOLID aluminium - 10mm thick. If you are interested, talk to Stephen & Francine Johnson of North Sea Maritime - www.northseamaritime.co.uk - they are the importers and experts for UK and Ireland. They usually have a range of used boats and are completely trustworthy - lovely people. We have gone the opposite way to you - if you remember, we were interested in Aleria before you put her on the market. We need something larger and went for an Oyster 55 (1995) just before you put Aleria on sale. Very happy with a boat that can tack through 90 degrees in 50 knots... Loads of room for the nippers too! If you don't fancy an Ovni, the Southerly boats seem to point somewhat better, but lack the incredible strength of an all aluminium design. "Distant Shores" on Youtube seem to have loved all their Southerlys. Best of luck with the search! If you're ever in Devon/Cornwall, drop me a line - it would be lovely to meet up. All the best, Rod
Thank you very much, Rod
yes I certainly remember you, but i did not know you had owned an Ovni.
as a very close friend chided me, when I lamented the Ovni not pointing well: "Gentlemen don't sail upwind". ;)
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By Alex_Blackwell - 16 Jul 2020
+x+xHas anyone got good, bad or ugly experience with shallow draft yachts? We are looking at doing more coastal cruising and want to get into places with skinny water (our currrent boat draws 8.5 feet. Ovnis have come up as have other makes. Maybe replying a bit late to this but I have a Koopmans 46’ Yacht, Dutch built in aluminium with hydraulic lifting keel. With the keel up you can sit her on the bottom not that I’ve needed to do that as with the keel up the draft is only 1.5 metres and with the keel down 2.5 metres, very useful in Denmark last year where many marinas were in less than 2 metres and in The Scillies the year before that where some passages are even less than that.
I saw a picture of a Koopmans - very pretty boat
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By Rod.Halling - 17 Jul 2020
+x+x+xHas anyone got good, bad or ugly experience with shallow draft yachts? We are looking at doing more coastal cruising and want to get into places with skinny water (our currrent boat draws 8.5 feet. Ovnis have come up as have other makes. Hi Alex, I owned an Ovni 385 from new for seven years and concur with Phil. She was a really good boat, but for us the lack of pointing ability (especially in the Med where the wind always seems to be on the nose) became a bit of an issue. The upsides are legion - sitting on the beach in the Scilly Isles, when all the deep keelers are wobbling about at anchor in the "roads", flying downwind with the plate up, easy fitment of "green energy" on the aft wing... We certainly did "go aground" a fair bit - mostly when we meant to, but sometimes just taking a chance, but never worried about landing on a rock as the bottom is SOLID aluminium - 10mm thick. If you are interested, talk to Stephen & Francine Johnson of North Sea Maritime - www.northseamaritime.co.uk - they are the importers and experts for UK and Ireland. They usually have a range of used boats and are completely trustworthy - lovely people. We have gone the opposite way to you - if you remember, we were interested in Aleria before you put her on the market. We need something larger and went for an Oyster 55 (1995) just before you put Aleria on sale. Very happy with a boat that can tack through 90 degrees in 50 knots... Loads of room for the nippers too! If you don't fancy an Ovni, the Southerly boats seem to point somewhat better, but lack the incredible strength of an all aluminium design. "Distant Shores" on Youtube seem to have loved all their Southerlys. Best of luck with the search! If you're ever in Devon/Cornwall, drop me a line - it would be lovely to meet up. All the best, Rod Thank you very much, Rod yes I certainly remember you, but i did not know you had owned an Ovni. as a very close friend chided me, when I lamented the Ovni not pointing well: "Gentlemen don't sail upwind". ;) Hi Alex,
Maybe Gentlemen don't sail upwind... but it seems that some of the nicest destinations ARE upwind - especially after a long downwind ocean passage! Perhaps I'm just a rubbish sailor, but I could never get our Ovni to tack through less than 100 degrees even in pretty flat conditions. She flew downwind though - often surfing at 12-13 knots.
I guess that "you pays your money and takes your choice"! Best of luck with the sale of Aleria and the fun prospect of buying another boat. Rod
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By David.Wells - 17 Sep 2020
Alex - sorry to be slow contributing to this topic. In my misspent youth I was privileged to work for Ted Hood in the 80's, and put many thousands of miles on different Hood centerboard designs at 46', 53', and 87'. All his designs had light foam core boards with just enough weight so there was no question it would go down - a few hundred pounds at the tip. In general the boards had a symmetrical foil shape so they would develop some lift with headway and leeway. With apparent wind aft of 60, we tended to mostly put the board away, or play with them a little to trim the helm and steering response. Of course the 87' had three boards - main, trim, and a dagger in the rudder; made for many interesting combinations allowing much control over the boat's handling. In general on the boats if any board clunked, it's not working, put it away. Closer than 60 the board would make a big difference to leeway and the way the boat paid attention to the helm. All these designs had a soft link - a wire to lift/drop the board. Because of this we could put the board down a foot or so when exploring someplace shallow at low speed - if you hit the board, you can crank it up and back up, easy. Not so easy with a hard link design like a mechanical lever or hydraulic cylinder. The cases were all carefully designed for fit so the board would generally be silent at anchor - nothing worse than a clunking board in the case when you roll a bit at anchor. They are definitely an added maintenance item, and a source of potential leaks. In 2019 we twice ran across the 87' ketch I used to run and they had to haul the boat twice in eight months trying to get the main board case/pin/wire to stop leaking. Overall I think the shallow draft was worth the added nuisance. I love my cat that draws 1.5m with the asymmetrical daggers up, and 3m down. Better not hit anything with a daggerboard though, that won't end well. Bottom line, if you want both skinny water and upwind performance, it's a good solution. Wing keels are also a decent solution - the Contest line of boats has been using them quite a lot, worth a look. Wings do introduce other challenges around grounding and etc. Scheel keels are a distant third for me. Hope this helps, happy to give more detail if wanted.
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By Dick - 17 Sep 2020
+xAlex - sorry to be slow contributing to this topic. In my misspent youth I was privileged to work for Ted Hood in the 80's, and put many thousands of miles on different Hood centerboard designs at 46', 53', and 87'. All his designs had light foam core boards with just enough weight so there was no question it would go down - a few hundred pounds at the tip. In general the boards had a symmetrical foil shape so they would develop some lift with headway and leeway. With apparent wind aft of 60, we tended to mostly put the board away, or play with them a little to trim the helm and steering response. Of course the 87' had three boards - main, trim, and a dagger in the rudder; made for many interesting combinations allowing much control over the boat's handling. In general on the boats if any board clunked, it's not working, put it away. Closer than 60 the board would make a big difference to leeway and the way the boat paid attention to the helm. All these designs had a soft link - a wire to lift/drop the board. Because of this we could put the board down a foot or so when exploring someplace shallow at low speed - if you hit the board, you can crank it up and back up, easy. Not so easy with a hard link design like a mechanical lever or hydraulic cylinder. The cases were all carefully designed for fit so the board would generally be silent at anchor - nothing worse than a clunking board in the case when you roll a bit at anchor. They are definitely an added maintenance item, and a source of potential leaks. In 2019 we twice ran across the 87' ketch I used to run and they had to haul the boat twice in eight months trying to get the main board case/pin/wire to stop leaking. Overall I think the shallow draft was worth the added nuisance. I love my cat that draws 1.5m with the asymmetrical daggers up, and 3m down. Better not hit anything with a daggerboard though, that won't end well. Bottom line, if you want both skinny water and upwind performance, it's a good solution. Wing keels are also a decent solution - the Contest line of boats has been using them quite a lot, worth a look. Wings do introduce other challenges around grounding and etc. Scheel keels are a distant third for me. Hope this helps, happy to give more detail if wanted.
Hi David,
Much wisdom and experience in your writing. Thanks for sharing and with such detail.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
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