By David.Tyler - 23 Aug 2012
I 'ver just seen the Yellowbrick advertisement in the latest FF, so I looked at their website. It seems to have come of age. No longer a Big Yellow Brick, but a small, rugged device with minimal power consumption, and a sensible purchase price, monthly fee and usage structure. It would give me what I 'm looking for - the ability to keep the folks back home aware of my position, and to send and receive SMS-style messages, when out of range of 3G.
I 'm tempted.
Is anyone using one?
David.
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By simoncurrin - 23 Aug 2012
Yes I saw the advert and followed the link too. It looks good. I wonder if a discount could be negotiated for OCC members?
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By David.Tyler - 23 Aug 2012
A friend of mine had to fit a Yellowbrick for the last AZAB. I was able to follow his progress on the tracker map, and update him on the positions of the boats around him. I could also see a GRIB style wind overlay, and could advise him of what weather was about to reach him. I wish someone could do that for me, sometimes - but not often enough to want to do all that 's necessary to download GRIBs myself in mid- ocean. I don 't need to talk to anyone from mid-ocean, either, so an Iridium phone is overkill, and not the right device for me.
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By simoncurrin - 23 Aug 2012
Maybe that is something we could set up on the Forum for member 's on passage using Yellow Brick or similar? A land based buddy keeping an eye on progress and forwarding by text weather information. I suspect that that would be quite popular and I am sure that it would be easy enough to organise a rota of land based members to act as "buddies".
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By Paul Heiney - 25 Aug 2012
I looked at Yellowbrick, but came across something else which I now have.
Have a look at http://www.inreachdelorme.com
I 've had it a couple of weeks and it 's great. It pairs with my iPhone (or any phone) and I just send emails in the usual way up to max 150 characters. It also does tracking so people back home can watch your dot moving across a screen, and there 's an SOS button (but it 's no substitute for a proper EPRIB).
Sorry, reads like an advert. But I think in terms of convenience it 's a big step forward.
Does email with no problem but text messaging seems problematical at the moment, but I 'll sort it.
By the way, 'Wild Song ' is setting south towards Cape Horn in a few weeks and the blog will start to be updated soon (as below)
__________________
www.sailblogs.com/member/wildsong
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By David.Tyler - 25 Aug 2012
The DeLorme device looked interesting - until I got down to the bottom of the page and found the problem:
NOTE: These plans are for individual consumers in the U.S. only. Canadian customers can find information at inreachcanada.com.
I 'm a UK citizen. I think the Yellowbrick will suit me better. At the moment, I 'm thinking of getting one sent down to Tahiti before I head north in October.
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By Paul Heiney - 25 Aug 2012
David,
I 'm a UK citizen too. No problem to open an account.
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By Paul Heiney - 25 Aug 2012
David,
I 'm a UK citizen too. No problem to open an account.
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By simoncurrin - 26 Aug 2012
Thanks Paul it looks like there is lots of new kit becoming available that use the Iridium network. The Delorme certainly looks better value for money than Yellowbrick. I did a quick comparison just for my own interest but thought it worth sharing.
Delorme:
[ol]
[li]Uses Iridium[/li]
[li]Bluetoothe interface with iPhone or iPad[/li]
[li]AA batteries able to post position report every 10 minutes for 120 hours[/li]
[li]2 way messaging[/li]
[li]Sos button[/li]
[li]24/7 manned response to sos[/li]
[li]Compatible with Email, SMS, Facebook and Twitter[/li]
[li]$260 plus airtime plan[/li]
[/ol]
Yellowbrick:
[ol]
[li]Uses Iridium[/li]
[li]Bluetoothe interface with iPhone or iPad[/li]
[li]Rechargeable Ithium battery via USB position report every 15 minutes for 3 weeks or every day for a year[/li]
[li]2 way messaging[/li]
[li]Sos button[/li]
[li]No manned SOS call centre but the SMS could go to Falmouth ets[/li]
[li]Compatible with Email, SMS, Facebook and Twitter[/li]
[li]Around £400 (depending on functionality) plus airtime plan[/li]
[/ol]
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By Paul Heiney - 26 Aug 2012
Simon,
Good work! You might also have a look at SPOT who have brought out something similar, although the satellite system they use has limitations at high latitudes.
As you say, this is a developing area and we 'll see some interesting stuff over the next few years. Anything is better (and cheaper) than a satellite phone for text messaging - for some reason I find them to be very user-unfriendly.
Paul Heiney
Wild Song
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By Paul Heiney - 26 Aug 2012
Since posting the above, I found this on an electronics blog. It was posted back in May and there have been a couple of software updates since.
The comments at the bottom make interesting reading - giving you the pluses and minuses
http://www.panbo.com/archives/2012/05/delorme_inreach_15_groovy_with_an_ipad.html
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By David.Tyler - 26 Aug 2012
Paul,
I looked at SPOT first. The pricing is good, but there 's a huge area of the Pacific that 's not covered. Wouldn 't be any good for going around Cape Horn, either!
I don 't think I 'd want to consider anything that needs its batteries to be replaced, though the electronics blog says there 's a power supply coming for the Inreach sometime.
Simon,
Many thanks for the comparison. But when I looked at the DeLorme site, the specs say that there is a GPS chipset built in. I 'd be surprised if there wasn 't, a device such as this wouldn 't be much use as an SOS panic button if some other bluetooth GPS had to be switched on as well.
David.
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By simoncurrin - 26 Aug 2012
David,
Yes that is right
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By David.Tyler - 26 Aug 2012
I found this link to the Cerberus device in that blog: http://cerberus.briartek.com/cerberlink/specs
That 's one I hadn 't heard of, it looks quite interesting, and it has a rechargeable battery...
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By Paul Heiney - 27 Aug 2012
David,
I think battery life is an issue with all of them, but only if you keep them switched on all the time. To be honest, I can 't see a real need to be tracked every ten minutes, or even every four hours.
I work on the basis that I let the folks back home know everything is OK ever 36 hours,or so.
I just switch it on for a while, send a tracking signal, and if the message light is flashing I 'll download that. I can 't give you a figure, but I guess that batteries would last for weeks that way.
On a similar subject, a friend of mine went from Falmouth to C Horn and back on quite a spartan boat. All they carried was a pocket GPS which they switched on at noon to get a fix, and then switched off again.
Their proud boast is that they got from the Horn to Falmouth on one set of AA batteries!
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By David.Tyler - 27 Aug 2012
Paul,
I 'd agree that battery life per se is not an issue. It 's more that having to remember to do something manually might be - switch on, switch off, change the batteries... The more I can eliminate my human errors, the better.
I 'm thinking of the folks who use an SSB to send a daily message "I 'm OK", and then one day that message doesn 't get sent, for some trivial reason (bad connection, corroded wire) and then the folks shoreside phone the Coastguard, and set a rescue mission going. It happens.
I 'd say that just to send my noon position is quite often enough for the tracker to be operational, but I might want to receive messages more frequently.
Yes, Mike Richey told me that on his annual trip across the Atlantic in Jester,, he would switch his GPS on for 5 minutes at noon, just to check the fix he was getting from whatever esoteric, archaic navigation tools and methods he was experimenting with - and made the batteries last for the whole passage.
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By dcaukill - 31 Aug 2012
I have a Yellow Brick Tracker. http://live.adventuretracking.com/serendipity It is very reliable - does what it says on the tin.
A few points on this thread.
1 Mine is wired into the boat electronics - so doesnt need to be reacharged
2 The weather overlay feature on the AZAB and World ARC is paid for by those organisations. It does not come with the basic kit.
3 Commercial Fleet managers fit them to their vessels to enable then to track them. Global coverage
4 Some yacht rally organisers do too. They fitted them in the current world ARC. It was a new smaller version which had problems with leakage and failure. Some WorldARC boats had had several replacementzs fitted by the time they left Australia. HOwever, YB think they have it fixed - Oyster are running their own rally starting next year and Yellow Brick have given assuracnes that the problem is fixed.
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By yellowbrick - 25 Oct 2012
Hello,
I found this thread and thought I should show my face, as it were.
As has been pointed out, these devices all offer similar functionality - but they 're not the same. We designed Yellowbrick for people like you, and we think it 's the best option for blue-water cruising, but I would say that! :whistle:
Just a few key differences:
- Yellowbrick allow you to purchase line rental on a month-by-month basis, with no minimum contract. If you 're only cruising for 3 months, just pay for 3 months. Our position and messaging credits don 't expire either.
- Yellowbrick allows to you read short incoming messages on it 's own display.
- You can customise your list of pre-set ( 'canned ') messages, which can be sent directly from the unit.
- YBlog is a really nice way to share your travels. See here for a good example.
But most importantly, we 're a small team of people who really understand sailing, and we 're always here to help.
A note on the World ARC problem: Yes, we had a manufacturing problem that affected the waterproof seal on one batch of trackers. The problem has now been resolved, and as a result we now manufacture our trackers in the UK - even the plastics are moulded here.
Feel free to fire any specific questions my way and I 'll do my best to answer.
Thanks,
Richard Searle
--
Yellowbrick Tracking Ltd
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By simoncurrin - 25 Oct 2012
Thanks Richard. Any discount for OCC Members?
Simon
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By yellowbrick - 25 Oct 2012
Hi Simon,
Yes, we 'll happily offer OCC members a discount. We can reduce the price of the unit, and also offer a deal on line-rental and credits.
I 'd rather not get into the details on a public forum, but please email us (address at http://www.yellowbrick-tracking.com), and we can discuss it further.
Thanks,
Richard
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By simoncurrin - 25 Oct 2012
Richard,
That 's great. We will be in touch.
Simon
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By David.Tyler - 25 Oct 2012
Hi Richard,
I recently bought a YB3 from you - could I apply for a post-dated OCC members discount, please? In extra months and credits will be fine, because although I 've only had it a short time, and have only used it on a 3 day passage, it seems to be giving me the minimal mid-ocean connectivity I need, with the tracker map as useful entertainment for armchair sailors!
http://my.yb.tl/tystie34/
Queries and comments:
The data sheet says I get 50 characters of messaging for one credit, but the iPad app says I get 25 characters, which is not good news, if true, doubling the expense. Which is correct?
The battery life is vastly shorter than advertised. In three days, I used half the battery capacity (position report every 6 hours, one outgoing message, 2 incoming messages, the unit in the open with a clear view of the sky). I should have got the permanent power supply and permanent mount.
The strap on mount does not permit charging in situ. There should be a hole at the back to reveal the USB socket.
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By simoncurrin - 25 Oct 2012
David,
Good to see you are broadcasting position. Do let me know if you want any weather information relaying when you are on passage.
Simon
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By yellowbrick - 25 Oct 2012
Hi David,
Absolutely - drop us an email next time you intend to top up, and we 'll apply something equivalent to the members offer.
Thanks for your comments - I 'd be pleased to answer them.
Credits - You get 50 characters per credit. However, the first 25 characters of your message are taken up by your list of recipients. So, a 26 character message will cost 2 credits, as will a 75 character message. 76 characters will cost 3 credits. For the benefit of those not familiar with our service, credits cost between 5 and 12 pence, depending on the quantity purchased.
Battery Life - Our recent testing has shown battery life to actually exceed that advertised. In your case, I believe you have the Bluetooth option switched on permanently. Bluetooth is power-hungry I 'm afraid, and you will get through the battery much faster. We are looking at newer Bluetooth technologies to try to improve battery life, but the reality is that for this 'generation ' of tracking/messaging devices (including those of our competitors), leaving Bluetooth switched on will get through the battery much more quickly.
Mounting - The soft pouch which you have is really intended for people who need to move the tracker frequently - maybe between different vessels. The quick-release mount sounds like it would suit you better, and does allow you to leave the permanent power supply connected.
I hope that helps!
Richard
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By David.Tyler - 31 Oct 2012
[quote="simoncurrin" post=690]David,
Good to see you are broadcasting position. Do let me know if you want any weather information relaying when you are on passage.
Simon[/quote]
Simon,
I set off from Rangiroa towards Hawai 'i tomorrow. It should be very easy, but let 's give it a trial run. About the only thing that I might want to know is when I will enter and leave the ITCZ, otherwise it should be Trades all the way. I 've added your email address to my list of contacts, which makes it possible for you to send emails to tystie34-app@my.yb.tl but please be telegrammatic, and write SMS style. U got 2 cut chars 2 minm, 50chars=10p. I can send brief blog entries and say when I do actually meet the ITCZ.
In an ideal world, all the active cruising members would have trackers, and the website would have just one world map with a tangle of tracks showing, as we all go about our passagemaking. I suspect that that can 't be done, if we have different makes of tracker. However, we could each give you the html code for our own maps to be embedded somewhere on the website - in cruising information, perhaps?
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By simoncurrin - 31 Oct 2012
David,
I have your route plugged into Predict Wind. Assume destination is Honalulu? I will try to send you a daily text of about 25 characters and assume you average about 6 knots. The text will give you predicted wind speed and direction at your predicted position approximately 24 and 48 hours ahead. Can do 72 or 96 hours if your budget will stretch that far. Let me know what you want.
Thus assuming you depart on 1st November then your first forecast will read as follows:
02/11 23:11 10.6kn 77degT
03/11 13:26 11.9kn 106degT
David is that the kind of information you want? Let me know if you want anything else or if you would prefer less frequent or more frequent texts.
Simon
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By David.Tyler - 31 Oct 2012
Simon,
I 'll try for Hilo. I like it there. 6 knots is a bit optimistic! I 'll be on the wind until 10S, doing 4 to 5 knots in 10 knots of wind.
Your example counted 51 characters, including spaces. Keep under 50, and we 'll be fine. All I really need is changes of wind direction over 10 degrees, but the thundery disturbances that come through, upsetting everything, may not register on a prediction program. Doesn 't matter, all I need to see is the big changes, that would necessitate a change of strategy. If the weather seems to be in steady state, the only reason for sending a message is for the purpose of comparing it against what I actually get. Anyway, let 's try a 48hr outlook for a start.
David.
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By David.Tyler - 31 Oct 2012
Simon,
I 'll try for Hilo. I like it there. 6 knots is a bit optimistic! I 'll be on the wind until 10S, doing 4 to 5 knots in 10 knots of wind. I need to get a lot of easting in the bank.
Your example counted 51 characters, including spaces. Keep under 50, and we 'll be fine. All I really need is changes of wind direction over 10 degrees, but the thundery disturbances that come through, upsetting everything, may not register on a prediction program. Doesn 't matter, all I need to see is the big changes, that would necessitate a change of strategy. If the weather seems to be in steady state, the only reason for sending a message is for the purpose of comparing it against what I actually get. Anyway, let 's try a 48hr outlook for a start.
David.
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By simoncurrin - 31 Oct 2012
David,
Fine I will stay below 50 characters and will keep an eye on the 4 and 5 day forecast and will let you know of major changes ahead. Have a good trip.
Simon
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By DariaBlackwell - 16 Nov 2012
Hi all,
I thought it would be useful to post this analysis of issues with the SPOT and similar devices.
http://www.practical-sailor.com/blog/-10824-1.html?s=FB11162012
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By Paul Heiney - 19 Nov 2012
A friend of mine recently lost his boat off Spitzbergen. He set off his EPIRB.
As a matter of interest, the first his wife heard of this was not a call from an MRCC, but from GEOS who spotted that the EPIRB was linked to a SPOT owner, even though he hadn 't pressed the SOS button on the SPOT.
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By David.Tyler - 30 Nov 2012
[quote="simoncurrin" post=698]David,
Fine I will stay below 50 characters and will keep an eye on the 4 and 5 day forecast and will let you know of major changes ahead. Have a good trip.
Simon[/quote]
Simon,
Sorry, that didn 't work out as planned. Five days out, I lost the Bluetooth connection with my iPad, and nothing would restore it. I was reduced to improvising a bit to send out cryptic messages to selected contacts.
The tracking worked as it should, and shows me as anchored in Hilo after a straightforward three week passage.
I 've been talking to Nick Farrell at YB, and all credit to the people there, they are trying to find out what the reason for the failure was. I have upgraded my iPad software from iOS 5 to 6 which has restored the Bluetooth connection, but I 'm mystified as to why it worked with iOS 5 for a time, and then quit. Also, the battery is losing charge much faster than it should, and we are trying to find out why that is.
Nick tells me that there is a plan to use the USB socket to connect to a laptop for messaging as well as to charge, and this in my view will be a much better and more reliable system than via Bluetooth to a tablet or phone.
I 'm convinced that this device is the way I want to go, for the minimal mid-ocean comms that I 'm seeking, but there seems to be a little more work to do before it will be 100% reliable.
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By yellowbrick - 30 Nov 2012
Just to confirm - this looks like a faulty unit (a battery problem and bluetooth problem), and we 've already agreed to swap it with the latest model of the unit just as soon as we have them in stock.
We do have plenty of people using the Bluetooth & app successfully with the YB3.
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By simoncurrin - 30 Nov 2012
David,
I am relieved to hear that it was a hardware problem and not that the forecasts were complete rubbish! Did "Predict Wind" come close to what you experienced in the first few days? They warned that there was a paucity of data available to build the GRIBs in the area that you were sailing so presumably they were a bit hit and miss? Anyway it was fun watching you inch north on Google earth. Do let me know if you ever want any minimalist forecasts again.
Simon
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By David.Tyler - 30 Nov 2012
[quote="simoncurrin" post=720]David,
I am relieved to hear that it was a hardware problem and not that the forecasts were complete rubbish! Did "Predict Wind" come close to what you experienced in the first few days? They warned that there was a paucity of data available to build the GRIBs in the area that you were sailing so presumably they were a bit hit and miss? Anyway it was fun watching you inch north on Google earth. Do let me know if you ever want any minimalist forecasts again.
Simon[/quote]
Simon,
I have to say that the forecasts didn 't bear much relation to the reality. Probably because of lack of data, as you say. I got winds that varied from NNE to ENE on a fairly regular pattern for the first five days, and I couldn 't tie that in with what you were sending me. I think for the future, all I 'd want to be told in these waters is that there was a hurricane bearing down on me. For the passage to Alaska next year, perhaps a better format would be "Low [millibars], position [lat,long], heading [direction].
This being a standard Tradewind passage, there was never going to be a major hiccup in the weather. I might have wanted somebody to cheer me up by telling me that I was nearly out of the Doldrums, but even that might not have shown up, if the data was scarce.
David.
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By David.Tyler - 15 Dec 2014
Oh, rats! :sick:
Now I 've gone and bought an Iridium GO!, I 've just noticed that there is now a Yellowbrick for permanent installation:
https://www.ybtracking.com/products-yb3i
which might - just might - have been all I needed, if it turned out to be more reliable than the handheld YB I had.
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