By MikeReynolds - 23 Sep 2020
Gday all,
If you're interested in how NMEA-2000 and SignalK changed one bluewater cruising boat's electronics system you may be interested in this...
http://yachtzenagain.blogspot.com/2020/09/our-nmea-2000-and-signal-k-electronics.html
Unsure whether this type of information would be welcome on the OCC Facebook page. Comments on that welcome too.
cheers,
Mike.
sv Zen Again
|
By Dick - 23 Sep 2020
+x
Hi Mike,
Please, your information, to my mind, definitely has a place on the Forum and is most welcome. There was lots of interesting information, much of which was above my pay grade.
My interest is in safety issues: can you spell out the ways in which you see the electronics you added improved the safety of the vessel and its crew?
And, you suggest at the end of your blog, that it was not till you had completed the additions that you felt ready to do an ocean crossing: what aspects of your additions did you feel was critical to being ready for an ocean passage?
Thanks, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
|
By MikeReynolds - 24 Sep 2020
+x+x Hi Mike, Please, your information, to my mind, definitely has a place on the Forum and is most welcome. There was lots of interesting information, much of which was above my pay grade. My interest is in safety issues: can you spell out the ways in which you see the electronics you added improved the safety of the vessel and its crew? And, you suggest at the end of your blog, that it was not till you had completed the additions that you felt ready to do an ocean crossing: what aspects of your additions did you feel was critical to being ready for an ocean passage? Thanks, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
Hi Dick,
Thanks for your reply. The electronics I've added most recently was the small computer on which I loaded SignalK and InfluxDB. This transformed our electronics from realtime-only to also providing historical data, and allowing the use of the same display software on all our devices.
Regarding improving safety:
1. Uniform display of realtime data across iPhone, iPad and Mac is a safety plus, especially when tired/stressed.
2. Display of environmental data (atmospheric pressure & temperatures) along with the usual boat performance data is a safety plus.
3. Availability of trends (from recordings) is a safety plus.
4. The ability to easily select between redundant data sources fed to all displays is a safety plus.
5. Hardware redundancy is a safety plus.
By the way, our only hardware chartplotter is an old, very small Garmin. We expect to dispose of it soon since software chart plotters which we can run on all our devices offer more features and (on iPhone and iPad) are portable. We carry multiple iPhones and iPads and they're far less susceptible to lightning damage unless connected for charging. That's another safety plus.
At the end of my blog I say we feel ready AGAIN. Just as when in the past we've headed off into the wild blue Zen Again again has a fully capable, modern electronics system. We don't have a lot of expensive kit, but we have all the information and it's well presented. For small boats and/or those with limited budgets I believe my approach has merit.
By the way, my first question in this thread was whether a link to blog posts like mine were welcome on the OCC Facebook page which seems much more popular than this Forum.
Cheers,
Mike.
|
By Dick - 24 Sep 2020
+x+x+x Hi Mike, Please, your information, to my mind, definitely has a place on the Forum and is most welcome. There was lots of interesting information, much of which was above my pay grade. My interest is in safety issues: can you spell out the ways in which you see the electronics you added improved the safety of the vessel and its crew? And, you suggest at the end of your blog, that it was not till you had completed the additions that you felt ready to do an ocean crossing: what aspects of your additions did you feel was critical to being ready for an ocean passage? Thanks, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy Hi Dick, Thanks for your reply. The electronics I've added most recently was the small computer on which I loaded SignalK and InfluxDB. This transformed our electronics from realtime-only to also providing historical data, and allowing the use of the same display software on all our devices. Regarding improving safety: 1. Uniform display of realtime data across iPhone, iPad and Mac is a safety plus, especially when tired/stressed. 2. Display of environmental data (atmospheric pressure & temperatures) along with the usual boat performance data is a safety plus. 3. Availability of trends (from recordings) is a safety plus. 4. The ability to easily select between redundant data sources fed to all displays is a safety plus. 5. Hardware redundancy is a safety plus. By the way, our only hardware chartplotter is an old, very small Garmin. We expect to dispose of it soon since software chart plotters which we can run on all our devices offer more features and (on iPhone and iPad) are portable. We carry multiple iPhones and iPads and they're far less susceptible to lightning damage unless connected for charging. That's another safety plus. At the end of my blog I say we feel ready AGAIN. Just as when in the past we've headed off into the wild blue Zen Again again has a fully capable, modern electronics system. We don't have a lot of expensive kit, but we have all the information and it's well presented. For small boats and/or those with limited budgets I believe my approach has merit. By the way, my first question in this thread was whether a link to blog posts like mine were welcome on the OCC Facebook page which seems much more popular than this Forum. Cheers, Mike.
Hi Mike,
And I had hoped to answer that question with the first sentence of my post:
“Please, your information, to my mind, definitely has a place on the Forum and is most welcome.”
I suspect you are correct that FB is more popular, which is a shame, in part, because, as I understand it, contributions such as yours are not archived to enable reading and study in the future. Some posts are worthy study, especially by those who make the effort to venture into new territory: early adapters so to speak. And you certainly sound like and early adapter in this area.
I will spend some time thinking about your post, but I did wish to respond quickly to your question of whether you were welcome: And to reiterate, absolutely, you are.
My best, Dick
|
By simoncurrin - 25 Sep 2020
Fascinating Mike. Thank you very much and I am sure that links such as this would be appreciated within the FB Member’s Group just as they are here in the Forum. Please make sure that this Forum is kept in the loop as here they are archived and searchable.
Simon
|
By Nigel.Studdart - 2 Oct 2020
Hi Mike
I use a signal K converter from digital yacht and pimp it through a ikconnect modem out to iPads and phones etc.
It works very well and is a great addition. Like you I have an aged chart plotter and can’t justify big money for a new one which is so limited .
Using a tablet with better processing power makes far more sense .
Excellent thanks .
On the topic of Facebook vs the Forum . I am almost ready to cease use of Facebook for OCC news ,due to the very poor quality of the debate and crass or unseemly nature of some of the comments . Sadly as a venue it seems to bring out the worse in some people . The quantity of contribution doesn’t not make up for the quality .
So please can I encourage you to use the forum where your post is valued and it’s author will be treated with respect.
|
By Dick - 2 Oct 2020
+xHi Mike I use a signal K converter from digital yacht and pimp it through a ikconnect modem out to iPads and phones etc.It works very well and is a great addition. Like you I have an aged chart plotter and can’t justify big money for a new one which is so limited .Using a tablet with better processing power makes far more sense .Excellent thanks .On the topic of Facebook vs the Forum . I am almost ready to cease use of Facebook for OCC news ,due to the very poor quality of the debate and crass or unseemly nature of some of the comments . Sadly as a venue it seems to bring out the worse in some people . The quantity of contribution doesn’t not make up for the quality .So please can I encourage you to use the forum where your post is valued and it’s author will be treated with respect.
Hi Nigel,
Thanks for the field report, always the best information that the marine field generates. And it sounds like your experience has some time-used behind it which is also valuable.
I am sorry to hear that Facebook has been so dis-agreeable for you, especially as it applies to OCC members. As one who has never darkened the doors of FB, it is interesting to hear your take. And I particularly have a problem with posts of significant contributions, such as Mike’s and yours, not being archived for later review and study and appreciation.
BTW, I have made the request in the past of Forum readers, but perhaps it is time to reiterate, that my wish is that nothing I write on these pages be copied and put on FB. I would hope all readers/OCC members would respect this wish. There are multiple reasons, but most important is that I would not have a chance to respond. I do invite any reader to read my writing on the Forum and respond in a way where we can have a discussion.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
|
By simoncurrin - 2 Oct 2020
Dick
Please be reassured that there is no proposal to move Forum contents onto Facebook. As Nigel says the quality of discussion on the Forum is infinitely better than that on Facebook even if there are more participants. Please keep up the good work.
Simon
|
By Dick - 2 Oct 2020
+xDick Please be reassured that there is no proposal to move Forum contents onto Facebook. As Nigel says the quality of discussion on the Forum is infinitely better than that on Facebook even if there are more participants. Please keep up the good work. Simon
Hi Simon, Understood and that was not really my worry. A few years ago I learned that writings I had done for the Forum were copied and posted on FB. I made a general announcement and since then I have been asked a couple of time to C&P writings and, since they are available in the Forum, I refused. My best, Dick
|
By Nigel.Studdart - 2 Oct 2020
Thanks Dick , absolutely agree .Your writing is invaluable and greatly appreciated . The only place it should be additionally posted is in a book !
Moving Back to signal K if anyone needs a flow diagram for a system I am using happy to share . I find it particularly useful for guest crew who can log in with a phone and stream position and wind data etc. Totally not needed but fun for the techie orientated . On a practical note with some simple systems as Mike said you can easily replace expensive marine MFD with tablets albeit not outside in the sun.
Nigel
|
By David.Wells - 11 Oct 2020
Mike - thanks for sharing your approach to navigation electronics on your boat. It's a great topic for the forum, and I'm glad to see it.
I have two concerns about marine electronics today, one general and one specific. In general, I see more and more people spending more and more time focused on their gauges and screens, and less time looking at the real world around them. There is an insidious tendency to forget that these tools are all AIDS to navigation, rather than navigation itself. Being able to use a chartplotter in any form doesn't automatically make one a navigator, and slavish reliance on it - as so many seem to have - is absolutely dangerous. Likewise with other electronic instruments - they should supplement and not replace our five senses and other analog instruments, with the additional risk that over-relying on electronics seems to drown out the critical sixth sense, an instinct for what is going on.
The result of this general concern is that I witness a dramatic lack of basic pilotage skills among many sailors, especially along the more well-trod routes.
My specific concern in regard to the rise of home brewed navigation electronics using office equipment is that this hardware is absolutely not designed or built to marine standards. There seems to be a lot of emphasis on ducking the high costs of marinized equipment; the pushback is that office equipment is cheap and thus it's possible to afford multiple laptops, tablets, phones, etc. Please recall your infrastructure gear may not be marinized either, so there's a common point of failure there. And, corrosion in a salt water atmosphere is partly a function of elapsed time - there is a very real risk of all these bits of kit failing in quick succession at some point.
Putting these two concerns together - I see some people shortcutting truly learning to navigate and also hoping to save money on electronics with office equipment potentially putting themselves out on a limb which the challenging environment onboard could saw off from under them. It was the statement that all these electronics made you ready to go sea again that really triggered this rant - in my mind electronics have very little to do with going to sea. I think if you're not ready to go to sea without that kit, then I'd say you're not ready to go to sea with it either. This is absolutely not a personal attack - it's a point of view from somebody who first sailed and navigated long distances with the basics - clock, compass, log & sextant - before the age of GPS. I'm not saying all people should be restricted to such basics, I'll use all the tools - I love my chartplotter. But if it all goes dark I'm not missing a beat - which I think is an important though increasingly rare skill set.
|
By MikeReynolds - 12 Oct 2020
Hi David,
Acknowledge your self-confessed rant. Suffice to say that most who know me, my attitude to safety and my attitude to technology tell me I am extremely safety conscious. As far as being "ready to go to sea again" that was a statement after four years gradually refitting Zen Again to continue blue water cruising. Our blog details that work.
Mike.
|
By DariaBlackwell - 26 Mar 2021
I have just recently come across mention of Signal K being transformational for the yachting industry and looked it up. Someone described it as NMEA on steroids. I must say, it's way beyond my paygrade but, if I understand it correctly, it's a portal to the Internet of Things (IoT) for mariners? What I was looking at it for was how it would affect development of apps, like the one OCC has just introduced. Am I correct in thinking that it could open up automated connectivity between apps and devices?
|
By Andy.Barrow - 22 Apr 2021
+xI have just recently come across mention of Signal K being transformational for the yachting industry and looked it up. Someone described it as NMEA on steroids. I must say, it's way beyond my paygrade but, if I understand it correctly, it's a portal to the Internet of Things (IoT) for mariners? What I was looking at it for was how it would affect development of apps, like the one OCC has just introduced. Am I correct in thinking that it could open up automated connectivity between apps and devices?
"NMEA on steroids" might be a fair representation. After a few years working with and programming devices to support SignalK, I think SignalK was developed for a few reasons:
1. Frustration by developers, particularly smaller companies and hobbyist programmers, that NMEA2000 is closed and requires a license fee and the signing of an NDA.
2. The need for something that better supported more readily available technology, such as WiFi, Ethernet, Bluetooth, etc. both at the physical level (connectors, etc.) and the network level (TCP and UDP, primarily). Yes, I know that there are wireless adaptations of NMEA200 and NMEA0183, but neither of those technologies were originally designed for wireless.
3. The lack of marine technologies that easily support higher level network communications technologies that allow interfacing with open source applications, database technologies, etc.
A good real-world illustration of this is OpenCPN. While many would argue that it is a robust, offshore-ready piece of software, albeit free , it has never and *will* never support NMEA2000 due to point 1 above. It does, however, support SignalK.
While support and embracing of Internet-of-things technologies is certainly a big part of SignalK, it's probably more a case of a number of technologies coming together at the same time. Small, relatively easy to program devices like ESP32 micro-controllers are available for under $10 USD, and provide a great platform for SignalK sensors, displays, and that sort of thing. Put them in a marinized waterproof case with appropriate electrical protection and you have a device that does the same thing as a commercial sensor that costs many times the price. Bring the data into a $45 Raspberry Pi (similarly marinized), and you have a high function system for monitoring just about anything on your boat.
I see SignalK as a means for the smaller guys like Quark-Elec (although they don't have any SignalK equipment yet), Digital Yacht, etc. to get into the game. Already some of the larger guys like Victron Energy are providing SIgnalK support.
|
|