OCC Forums » Seamanship » Medical matters at sea » Medical Seminar for OCC Members

Medical Seminar for OCC Members

simoncurrin — Wed, 02 Dec 2020 16:26:30 GMT

We were wondering if there might be a demand for a weekend medical seminar specifically for cruisers far from shore let alone home? I would be happy to facilitate this being a UK GP, an active cruiser and with 25 years of experience in remote mountain medical matters. I wouldn 't propose a rigid course but rather shape it to fit the experience and concerns of those attending. The aim would be to share experiences and skills in an informal environment. What are your thoughts? Is there a need? What subjects should be tackled? Formal or informal? Simon

RE: Medical Seminar for OCC Members

simoncurrin — Wed, 02 Dec 2020 16:26:30 GMT

Daria Let me know what questions you would like to ask and I will format the survey. Simon

RE: Medical Seminar for OCC Members

simoncurrin — Wed, 02 Dec 2020 16:23:45 GMT

Daria
I’d be happy to put a link to such a survey in my December email to all members and follow it up with a webinar in the Spring. It looks like the next series of webinars will be more technical in nature so a medical one would fit nicely.
Simon

+x[quote]

[b]Daria Blackwell - 12/1/2020[/b]
+x[quote]

[b]Dick - 9/5/2020[/b]
+x[quote]

[b]Dick - 2/7/2019[/b]
Hi OCC community, I believe that the development of medical kits suggestions should not be very hard as the wheel has already been invented. Every few years there is an article to this end in the slicks, there are also commercial outfits who list their contents and some YC’s have suggestions. The details should clearly be vetted as to their content by those among us who are experienced in medicine [u]and[/u] experienced in cruising and they should be vetted for the changes in wilderness medical responses that are accruing. But to come up with a contents list for widely wandering cruising boats should not be a challenge (and pare it down for those who are coastal cruising etc.). In addition, too few kit lists address the specific needs of children and the largely unknown (for most cruisers) dangers of tropical mishaps while snorkeling, hiking etc. In most ways, the cruising families we have shared anchorages with over the years were the best prepared and trained: they carried a heightened anxiety with regards to their responsibility to their children and acted on that anxiety by getting training. In contrast, to my casual observation over the years, the cruising couples were far less well prepared. Many had not taken courses comprehensive enough to enable them to use the contents of a reasonably sized medical kit effectively in an emergency. When there was training, it was in the realm of basic first aid or the type of courses where the content of the course presumes that first responders are on their way and a hospital an ambulance ride away.. The above is a long route to suggesting that hand-in-hand with developing suggestions for a kit (and perhaps even prior to developing a kit), especially a kit with prescription medicines ready-at-hand, we should be looking at the various training opportunities in our respective countries and urging OCC members to get the training necessary to use the kits effectively. I would want to suggest, that once one gets adequately trained, that the kit choices will largely fall into place and that it is the un-trained who will be confused and bewildered and looking to others for help: in other words, if you are confused about what your kit should contain, then you probably need training (or more training in depth). My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
[/quote]

In another part of the forum, I posted this as it was a follow up of a Thought on Safety. I think it also fits here. Dick
Hi all,
I said a while back that I was taking a refresher course in medical training: below is my report.
Comments on the course;
1.    Medical training has come up upon occasion. There is very little for the offshore recreational sailor and is more easily found among wilderness support programs. In these covid period with time on our hands, my wife and decided to do an on-line course labeled “Wilderness First Aid” (solowfa.com). It is a self-paced training that takes about 16 hours, I think matching the 2-day in house training of the same name and you have a month to complete the course. It is presented under the umbrella organization of SOLO Schools, one of three well known and well thought of wilderness training organizations in the US. It comes with a handbook.
2.    All will benefit, but those sailors who do a lot of hiking will particularly benefit from the emphasis on trail injuries.
3.    This is an on-line course that was cobbled together for this covid time, and should be viewed as an impressive effort. There is definitely a loss from missing class participation where hands-on skills are practiced, but some, or most, of that can be covered by diligent students on their own.
4.    We got a lot out of the course and felt we had renewed some, perhaps much, of the skill-and-thinking set acquired in previous training that is the basis for wilderness intervention.
5.    We certainly noticed that this was a “low budget” locally produced production, but did not feel that this interfered with the training nor did it impact adversely our ability to learn the content. That said some of the whiteboard hand writing and organization could have been improved; additionally, not all is covered in the accompanying text. A lower fee for couples training together would be appreciated.
6.    It is not a wilderness course by my definition: being completely on one’s own. Most interventions are predicated on the thought that there could be an ambulance called to the trailhead. That said, it did cover the essentials of making a determination of the nature and severity of a medical emergency. An offshore sailor would do well to continue training using this course as a beginning.
7.    This not a course that teaches initial and follow-up treatment of moderately serious injuries/illness that do not meet the level to bring rescue hundreds of miles to seas: perhaps the loss of a finger tip in a winch might be an example. Painful, gruesome, worrisome, but within the treatment capacities of a crew with an adequate medical kit and reasonable prescription pain medications and meds for infection.
8.    In summary, I would very much recommend this course for those who have had no prior training or for those whose training has consisted of CPR and a few hours of first aid. This course is far more substantial and might be best described as and “Adventurer’s First Aid” course rather than a “Wilderness First Aid” which should do nothing to diminish its usefulness.
Come back with questions,
My best to all, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
[/quote]

I made Alex take an advanced first aid course because his typical response to injury was 'soak it in salt water'. In self-preservation, I signed him up for certification.

I had studied and have onboard Auerbach's Wilderness Medicine manual. It's now a 2-volume set. I would have loved this online course you suggest, Dick. I will check it out. Thanks.
I also had onboard a comprehensive personalised medical kit that my sister put together for me - she was an Infectious Disease specialist. And I had a complete surgical kit with some instruction in how to use it. If I had to get advice via SSB, at least I'd have all the tools necessary to follow instructions. Thankfully, the only thing I had to use was the antibiotic when I developed strep throat after swimming in Martinique. We never made it into the Pacific after a family member had a heart attack and then a stroke and we had to return home, so we were never really that remote.

Alex broke ribs on a delivery from the Azores to Ireland. There's not much one can do about this. Fortunately, I had sent him off with a good supply of painkillers and instructions about how to use them.

I wonder if there's a way for us to compile a list of injuries/illness our members have experienced while cruising. Perhaps a survey on the Forum? The results analysed could make an excellent Best Practices paper.
[/quote]

RE: Medical Seminar for OCC Members

DariaBlackwell — Wed, 02 Dec 2020 15:26:41 GMT

+x[quote]

[b]Simon Currin - 12/2/2020[/b]
Daria
I’d be happy to put a link to such a survey in my December email to all members and follow it up with a webinar in the Spring. It looks like the next series of webinars will be more technical in nature so a mediaeval one would fit nicely.
Simon

+x[quote]

[b]Daria Blackwell - 12/1/2020[/b]
+x[quote]

[b]Dick - 9/5/2020[/b]
+x[quote]

[b]Dick - 2/7/2019[/b]
Hi OCC community, I believe that the development of medical kits suggestions should not be very hard as the wheel has already been invented. Every few years there is an article to this end in the slicks, there are also commercial outfits who list their contents and some YC’s have suggestions. The details should clearly be vetted as to their content by those among us who are experienced in medicine [u]and[/u] experienced in cruising and they should be vetted for the changes in wilderness medical responses that are accruing. But to come up with a contents list for widely wandering cruising boats should not be a challenge (and pare it down for those who are coastal cruising etc.). In addition, too few kit lists address the specific needs of children and the largely unknown (for most cruisers) dangers of tropical mishaps while snorkeling, hiking etc. In most ways, the cruising families we have shared anchorages with over the years were the best prepared and trained: they carried a heightened anxiety with regards to their responsibility to their children and acted on that anxiety by getting training. In contrast, to my casual observation over the years, the cruising couples were far less well prepared. Many had not taken courses comprehensive enough to enable them to use the contents of a reasonably sized medical kit effectively in an emergency. When there was training, it was in the realm of basic first aid or the type of courses where the content of the course presumes that first responders are on their way and a hospital an ambulance ride away.. The above is a long route to suggesting that hand-in-hand with developing suggestions for a kit (and perhaps even prior to developing a kit), especially a kit with prescription medicines ready-at-hand, we should be looking at the various training opportunities in our respective countries and urging OCC members to get the training necessary to use the kits effectively. I would want to suggest, that once one gets adequately trained, that the kit choices will largely fall into place and that it is the un-trained who will be confused and bewildered and looking to others for help: in other words, if you are confused about what your kit should contain, then you probably need training (or more training in depth). My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
[/quote]

In another part of the forum, I posted this as it was a follow up of a Thought on Safety. I think it also fits here. Dick
Hi all,
I said a while back that I was taking a refresher course in medical training: below is my report.
Comments on the course;
1.    Medical training has come up upon occasion. There is very little for the offshore recreational sailor and is more easily found among wilderness support programs. In these covid period with time on our hands, my wife and decided to do an on-line course labeled “Wilderness First Aid” (solowfa.com). It is a self-paced training that takes about 16 hours, I think matching the 2-day in house training of the same name and you have a month to complete the course. It is presented under the umbrella organization of SOLO Schools, one of three well known and well thought of wilderness training organizations in the US. It comes with a handbook.
2.    All will benefit, but those sailors who do a lot of hiking will particularly benefit from the emphasis on trail injuries.
3.    This is an on-line course that was cobbled together for this covid time, and should be viewed as an impressive effort. There is definitely a loss from missing class participation where hands-on skills are practiced, but some, or most, of that can be covered by diligent students on their own.
4.    We got a lot out of the course and felt we had renewed some, perhaps much, of the skill-and-thinking set acquired in previous training that is the basis for wilderness intervention.
5.    We certainly noticed that this was a “low budget” locally produced production, but did not feel that this interfered with the training nor did it impact adversely our ability to learn the content. That said some of the whiteboard hand writing and organization could have been improved; additionally, not all is covered in the accompanying text. A lower fee for couples training together would be appreciated.
6.    It is not a wilderness course by my definition: being completely on one’s own. Most interventions are predicated on the thought that there could be an ambulance called to the trailhead. That said, it did cover the essentials of making a determination of the nature and severity of a medical emergency. An offshore sailor would do well to continue training using this course as a beginning.
7.    This not a course that teaches initial and follow-up treatment of moderately serious injuries/illness that do not meet the level to bring rescue hundreds of miles to seas: perhaps the loss of a finger tip in a winch might be an example. Painful, gruesome, worrisome, but within the treatment capacities of a crew with an adequate medical kit and reasonable prescription pain medications and meds for infection.
8.    In summary, I would very much recommend this course for those who have had no prior training or for those whose training has consisted of CPR and a few hours of first aid. This course is far more substantial and might be best described as and “Adventurer’s First Aid” course rather than a “Wilderness First Aid” which should do nothing to diminish its usefulness.
Come back with questions,
My best to all, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
[/quote]

I made Alex take an advanced first aid course because his typical response to injury was 'soak it in salt water'. In self-preservation, I signed him up for certification.

I had studied and have onboard Auerbach's Wilderness Medicine manual. It's now a 2-volume set. I would have loved this online course you suggest, Dick. I will check it out. Thanks.
I also had onboard a comprehensive personalised medical kit that my sister put together for me - she was an Infectious Disease specialist. And I had a complete surgical kit with some instruction in how to use it. If I had to get advice via SSB, at least I'd have all the tools necessary to follow instructions. Thankfully, the only thing I had to use was the antibiotic when I developed strep throat after swimming in Martinique. We never made it into the Pacific after a family member had a heart attack and then a stroke and we had to return home, so we were never really that remote.

Alex broke ribs on a delivery from the Azores to Ireland. There's not much one can do about this. Fortunately, I had sent him off with a good supply of painkillers and instructions about how to use them.

I wonder if there's a way for us to compile a list of injuries/illness our members have experienced while cruising. Perhaps a survey on the Forum? The results analysed could make an excellent Best Practices paper.
[/quote]

[/quote]

Great! I'd love a 'mediaeval' topic! :) Let's work on a survey.
Daria

RE: Medical Seminar for OCC Members

neilm — Wed, 02 Dec 2020 04:42:49 GMT

A seminar as you suggest would be worthwhile
Particularly with Covid restrictions, doing it on Zoom is probably best

I agree with the virtually all the other poster's points

RE: Medical Seminar for OCC Members

Dick — Tue, 01 Dec 2020 20:22:39 GMT

+x[quote]

[b]Daria Blackwell - 12/1/2020[/b]
+x[quote]

[b]Dick - 9/5/2020[/b]
+x[quote]

[b]Dick - 2/7/2019[/b]
Hi OCC community, I believe that the development of medical kits suggestions should not be very hard as the wheel has already been invented. Every few years there is an article to this end in the slicks, there are also commercial outfits who list their contents and some YC’s have suggestions. The details should clearly be vetted as to their content by those among us who are experienced in medicine [u]and[/u] experienced in cruising and they should be vetted for the changes in wilderness medical responses that are accruing. But to come up with a contents list for widely wandering cruising boats should not be a challenge (and pare it down for those who are coastal cruising etc.). In addition, too few kit lists address the specific needs of children and the largely unknown (for most cruisers) dangers of tropical mishaps while snorkeling, hiking etc. In most ways, the cruising families we have shared anchorages with over the years were the best prepared and trained: they carried a heightened anxiety with regards to their responsibility to their children and acted on that anxiety by getting training. In contrast, to my casual observation over the years, the cruising couples were far less well prepared. Many had not taken courses comprehensive enough to enable them to use the contents of a reasonably sized medical kit effectively in an emergency. When there was training, it was in the realm of basic first aid or the type of courses where the content of the course presumes that first responders are on their way and a hospital an ambulance ride away.. The above is a long route to suggesting that hand-in-hand with developing suggestions for a kit (and perhaps even prior to developing a kit), especially a kit with prescription medicines ready-at-hand, we should be looking at the various training opportunities in our respective countries and urging OCC members to get the training necessary to use the kits effectively. I would want to suggest, that once one gets adequately trained, that the kit choices will largely fall into place and that it is the un-trained who will be confused and bewildered and looking to others for help: in other words, if you are confused about what your kit should contain, then you probably need training (or more training in depth). My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
[/quote]

In another part of the forum, I posted this as it was a follow up of a Thought on Safety. I think it also fits here. Dick
Hi all,
I said a while back that I was taking a refresher course in medical training: below is my report.
Comments on the course;
1.    Medical training has come up upon occasion. There is very little for the offshore recreational sailor and is more easily found among wilderness support programs. In these covid period with time on our hands, my wife and decided to do an on-line course labeled “Wilderness First Aid” (solowfa.com). It is a self-paced training that takes about 16 hours, I think matching the 2-day in house training of the same name and you have a month to complete the course. It is presented under the umbrella organization of SOLO Schools, one of three well known and well thought of wilderness training organizations in the US. It comes with a handbook.
2.    All will benefit, but those sailors who do a lot of hiking will particularly benefit from the emphasis on trail injuries.
3.    This is an on-line course that was cobbled together for this covid time, and should be viewed as an impressive effort. There is definitely a loss from missing class participation where hands-on skills are practiced, but some, or most, of that can be covered by diligent students on their own.
4.    We got a lot out of the course and felt we had renewed some, perhaps much, of the skill-and-thinking set acquired in previous training that is the basis for wilderness intervention.
5.    We certainly noticed that this was a “low budget” locally produced production, but did not feel that this interfered with the training nor did it impact adversely our ability to learn the content. That said some of the whiteboard hand writing and organization could have been improved; additionally, not all is covered in the accompanying text. A lower fee for couples training together would be appreciated.
6.    It is not a wilderness course by my definition: being completely on one’s own. Most interventions are predicated on the thought that there could be an ambulance called to the trailhead. That said, it did cover the essentials of making a determination of the nature and severity of a medical emergency. An offshore sailor would do well to continue training using this course as a beginning.
7.    This not a course that teaches initial and follow-up treatment of moderately serious injuries/illness that do not meet the level to bring rescue hundreds of miles to seas: perhaps the loss of a finger tip in a winch might be an example. Painful, gruesome, worrisome, but within the treatment capacities of a crew with an adequate medical kit and reasonable prescription pain medications and meds for infection.
8.    In summary, I would very much recommend this course for those who have had no prior training or for those whose training has consisted of CPR and a few hours of first aid. This course is far more substantial and might be best described as and “Adventurer’s First Aid” course rather than a “Wilderness First Aid” which should do nothing to diminish its usefulness.
Come back with questions,
My best to all, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
[/quote]

I made Alex take an advanced first aid course because his typical response to injury was 'soak it in salt water'. In self-preservation, I signed him up for certification.

I had studied and have onboard Auerbach's Wilderness Medicine manual. It's now a 2-volume set. I would have loved this online course you suggest, Dick. I will check it out. Thanks.
I also had onboard a comprehensive personalised medical kit that my sister put together for me - she was an Infectious Disease specialist. And I had a complete surgical kit with some instruction in how to use it. If I had to get advice via SSB, at least I'd have all the tools necessary to follow instructions. Thankfully, the only thing I had to use was the antibiotic when I developed strep throat after swimming in Martinique. We never made it into the Pacific after a family member had a heart attack and then a stroke and we had to return home, so we were never really that remote.

Alex broke ribs on a delivery from the Azores to Ireland. There's not much one can do about this. Fortunately, I had sent him off with a good supply of painkillers and instructions about how to use them.

I wonder if there's a way for us to compile a list of injuries/illness our members have experienced while cruising. Perhaps a survey on the Forum? The results analysed could make an excellent Best Practices paper.
[/quote]

Hi Daria,
Good for you for pulling Alex away from salt water on wounds if that salt water is from the ocean. Ocean water is not sterile and is not recommended for cleaning wounds. Sterile saline solution can be used for irrigation of wounds. On the boat, I make a point of quickly covering even small cuts with an anti-biotic cream and a bandaid or it will impressively quickly get infected. And especially if I get it in salt water.
I believe a recent Forum addition (by Dr. Forbes if memory serves) did some compiling of data, but I forget whether injuries were part of the questionnaire. It is a good question.
The following is my un-professional understanding but based on training in wilderness emergency medicine and reading: please do your own research.
If your surgical kit was in the service of doing stitching, my research and training indicates that it is best (out cruising) to not close up the wound with stitching. Firstly, it is hard to have a sterile theater in which to do the work on a boat, especially a moving boat and a wound requiring stitching is likely to be hard to clean effectively by us amateurs in those circumstances. It is therefore likely with stitching, that bacteria will get closed into the wound where it will blossom in not-so-good ways. Better to use butterfly bandages or gauze and tape bandages.
Stitching is also best done by someone who does it regularly. It can and has been done in the field by amateurs, but the above alternatives are likely to work out better for the patient.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

RE: Medical Seminar for OCC Members

DariaBlackwell — Tue, 01 Dec 2020 19:18:18 GMT

+x[quote]

[b]Dick - 9/5/2020[/b]
+x[quote]

[b]Dick - 2/7/2019[/b]
Hi OCC community, I believe that the development of medical kits suggestions should not be very hard as the wheel has already been invented. Every few years there is an article to this end in the slicks, there are also commercial outfits who list their contents and some YC’s have suggestions. The details should clearly be vetted as to their content by those among us who are experienced in medicine [u]and[/u] experienced in cruising and they should be vetted for the changes in wilderness medical responses that are accruing. But to come up with a contents list for widely wandering cruising boats should not be a challenge (and pare it down for those who are coastal cruising etc.). In addition, too few kit lists address the specific needs of children and the largely unknown (for most cruisers) dangers of tropical mishaps while snorkeling, hiking etc. In most ways, the cruising families we have shared anchorages with over the years were the best prepared and trained: they carried a heightened anxiety with regards to their responsibility to their children and acted on that anxiety by getting training. In contrast, to my casual observation over the years, the cruising couples were far less well prepared. Many had not taken courses comprehensive enough to enable them to use the contents of a reasonably sized medical kit effectively in an emergency. When there was training, it was in the realm of basic first aid or the type of courses where the content of the course presumes that first responders are on their way and a hospital an ambulance ride away.. The above is a long route to suggesting that hand-in-hand with developing suggestions for a kit (and perhaps even prior to developing a kit), especially a kit with prescription medicines ready-at-hand, we should be looking at the various training opportunities in our respective countries and urging OCC members to get the training necessary to use the kits effectively. I would want to suggest, that once one gets adequately trained, that the kit choices will largely fall into place and that it is the un-trained who will be confused and bewildered and looking to others for help: in other words, if you are confused about what your kit should contain, then you probably need training (or more training in depth). My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
[/quote]

In another part of the forum, I posted this as it was a follow up of a Thought on Safety. I think it also fits here. Dick
Hi all,
I said a while back that I was taking a refresher course in medical training: below is my report.
Comments on the course;
1.    Medical training has come up upon occasion. There is very little for the offshore recreational sailor and is more easily found among wilderness support programs. In these covid period with time on our hands, my wife and decided to do an on-line course labeled “Wilderness First Aid” (solowfa.com). It is a self-paced training that takes about 16 hours, I think matching the 2-day in house training of the same name and you have a month to complete the course. It is presented under the umbrella organization of SOLO Schools, one of three well known and well thought of wilderness training organizations in the US. It comes with a handbook.
2.    All will benefit, but those sailors who do a lot of hiking will particularly benefit from the emphasis on trail injuries.
3.    This is an on-line course that was cobbled together for this covid time, and should be viewed as an impressive effort. There is definitely a loss from missing class participation where hands-on skills are practiced, but some, or most, of that can be covered by diligent students on their own.
4.    We got a lot out of the course and felt we had renewed some, perhaps much, of the skill-and-thinking set acquired in previous training that is the basis for wilderness intervention.
5.    We certainly noticed that this was a “low budget” locally produced production, but did not feel that this interfered with the training nor did it impact adversely our ability to learn the content. That said some of the whiteboard hand writing and organization could have been improved; additionally, not all is covered in the accompanying text. A lower fee for couples training together would be appreciated.
6.    It is not a wilderness course by my definition: being completely on one’s own. Most interventions are predicated on the thought that there could be an ambulance called to the trailhead. That said, it did cover the essentials of making a determination of the nature and severity of a medical emergency. An offshore sailor would do well to continue training using this course as a beginning.
7.    This not a course that teaches initial and follow-up treatment of moderately serious injuries/illness that do not meet the level to bring rescue hundreds of miles to seas: perhaps the loss of a finger tip in a winch might be an example. Painful, gruesome, worrisome, but within the treatment capacities of a crew with an adequate medical kit and reasonable prescription pain medications and meds for infection.
8.    In summary, I would very much recommend this course for those who have had no prior training or for those whose training has consisted of CPR and a few hours of first aid. This course is far more substantial and might be best described as and “Adventurer’s First Aid” course rather than a “Wilderness First Aid” which should do nothing to diminish its usefulness.
Come back with questions,
My best to all, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
[/quote]

I made Alex take an advanced first aid course because his typical response to injury was 'soak it in salt water'. In self-preservation, I signed him up for certification.

I had studied and have onboard Auerbach's Wilderness Medicine manual. It's now a 2-volume set. I would have loved this online course you suggest, Dick. I will check it out. Thanks.
I also had onboard a comprehensive personalised medical kit that my sister put together for me - she was an Infectious Disease specialist. And I had a complete surgical kit with some instruction in how to use it. If I had to get advice via SSB, at least I'd have all the tools necessary to follow instructions. Thankfully, the only thing I had to use was the antibiotic when I developed strep throat after swimming in Martinique. We never made it into the Pacific after a family member had a heart attack and then a stroke and we had to return home, so we were never really that remote.

Alex broke ribs on a delivery from the Azores to Ireland. There's not much one can do about this. Fortunately, I had sent him off with a good supply of painkillers and instructions about how to use them.

I wonder if there's a way for us to compile a list of injuries/illness our members have experienced while cruising. Perhaps a survey on the Forum? The results analysed could make an excellent Best Practices paper.

RE: Medical Seminar for OCC Members

Dick — Sat, 05 Sep 2020 19:35:08 GMT

+x[quote]

[b]Simon Currin - 9/5/2020[/b]
Dick
That sounds good. I wonder if I might steer Sally in that direction?

Simon
[/quote]

Hi Simon,
I think anyone who is a sailor or hiker would benefit, especially if starting from the minimal training that most bump into in their land based life.
With your and Sally's wide ranging outdoor interests and adventurous undertakings, I can only imagine that Sally would benefit and would feel more secure in having some skills training to take care of you if bad luck comes your way.
It would be great to have another set of eyes giving a review as well
Come back with any questions, My best, Dick

RE: Medical Seminar for OCC Members

simoncurrin — Sat, 05 Sep 2020 19:19:35 GMT

Dick
That sounds good. I wonder if I might steer Sally in that direction?

Simon

RE: Medical Seminar for OCC Members

Dick — Sat, 05 Sep 2020 14:52:45 GMT

+x[quote]

[b]Dick - 2/7/2019[/b]
Hi OCC community, I believe that the development of medical kits suggestions should not be very hard as the wheel has already been invented. Every few years there is an article to this end in the slicks, there are also commercial outfits who list their contents and some YC’s have suggestions. The details should clearly be vetted as to their content by those among us who are experienced in medicine [u]and[/u] experienced in cruising and they should be vetted for the changes in wilderness medical responses that are accruing. But to come up with a contents list for widely wandering cruising boats should not be a challenge (and pare it down for those who are coastal cruising etc.). In addition, too few kit lists address the specific needs of children and the largely unknown (for most cruisers) dangers of tropical mishaps while snorkeling, hiking etc. In most ways, the cruising families we have shared anchorages with over the years were the best prepared and trained: they carried a heightened anxiety with regards to their responsibility to their children and acted on that anxiety by getting training. In contrast, to my casual observation over the years, the cruising couples were far less well prepared. Many had not taken courses comprehensive enough to enable them to use the contents of a reasonably sized medical kit effectively in an emergency. When there was training, it was in the realm of basic first aid or the type of courses where the content of the course presumes that first responders are on their way and a hospital an ambulance ride away.. The above is a long route to suggesting that hand-in-hand with developing suggestions for a kit (and perhaps even prior to developing a kit), especially a kit with prescription medicines ready-at-hand, we should be looking at the various training opportunities in our respective countries and urging OCC members to get the training necessary to use the kits effectively. I would want to suggest, that once one gets adequately trained, that the kit choices will largely fall into place and that it is the un-trained who will be confused and bewildered and looking to others for help: in other words, if you are confused about what your kit should contain, then you probably need training (or more training in depth). My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
[/quote]

In another part of the forum, I posted this as it was a follow up of a Thought on Safety. I think it also fits here. Dick
Hi all,
I said a while back that I was taking a refresher course in medical training: below is my report.
Comments on the course;
1.    Medical training has come up upon occasion. There is very little for the offshore recreational sailor and is more easily found among wilderness support programs. In these covid period with time on our hands, my wife and decided to do an on-line course labeled “Wilderness First Aid” (solowfa.com). It is a self-paced training that takes about 16 hours, I think matching the 2-day in house training of the same name and you have a month to complete the course. It is presented under the umbrella organization of SOLO Schools, one of three well known and well thought of wilderness training organizations in the US. It comes with a handbook.
2.    All will benefit, but those sailors who do a lot of hiking will particularly benefit from the emphasis on trail injuries.
3.    This is an on-line course that was cobbled together for this covid time, and should be viewed as an impressive effort. There is definitely a loss from missing class participation where hands-on skills are practiced, but some, or most, of that can be covered by diligent students on their own.
4.    We got a lot out of the course and felt we had renewed some, perhaps much, of the skill-and-thinking set acquired in previous training that is the basis for wilderness intervention.
5.    We certainly noticed that this was a “low budget” locally produced production, but did not feel that this interfered with the training nor did it impact adversely our ability to learn the content. That said some of the whiteboard hand writing and organization could have been improved; additionally, not all is covered in the accompanying text. A lower fee for couples training together would be appreciated.
6.    It is not a wilderness course by my definition: being completely on one’s own. Most interventions are predicated on the thought that there could be an ambulance called to the trailhead. That said, it did cover the essentials of making a determination of the nature and severity of a medical emergency. An offshore sailor would do well to continue training using this course as a beginning.
7.    This not a course that teaches initial and follow-up treatment of moderately serious injuries/illness that do not meet the level to bring rescue hundreds of miles to seas: perhaps the loss of a finger tip in a winch might be an example. Painful, gruesome, worrisome, but within the treatment capacities of a crew with an adequate medical kit and reasonable prescription pain medications and meds for infection.
8.    In summary, I would very much recommend this course for those who have had no prior training or for those whose training has consisted of CPR and a few hours of first aid. This course is far more substantial and might be best described as and “Adventurer’s First Aid” course rather than a “Wilderness First Aid” which should do nothing to diminish its usefulness.
Come back with questions,
My best to all, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

Medical Seminar for OCC Members

Dick — Thu, 07 Feb 2019 18:32:57 GMT

Hi OCC community, I believe that the development of medical kits suggestions should not be very hard as the wheel has already been invented. Every few years there is an article to this end in the slicks, there are also commercial outfits who list their contents and some YC’s have suggestions. The details should clearly be vetted as to their content by those among us who are experienced in medicine [u]and[/u] experienced in cruising and they should be vetted for the changes in wilderness medical responses that are accruing. But to come up with a contents list for widely wandering cruising boats should not be a challenge (and pare it down for those who are coastal cruising etc.). In addition, too few kit lists address the specific needs of children and the largely unknown (for most cruisers) dangers of tropical mishaps while snorkeling, hiking etc. In most ways, the cruising families we have shared anchorages with over the years were the best prepared and trained: they carried a heightened anxiety with regards to their responsibility to their children and acted on that anxiety by getting training. In contrast, to my casual observation over the years, the cruising couples were far less well prepared. Many had not taken courses comprehensive enough to enable them to use the contents of a reasonably sized medical kit effectively in an emergency. When there was training, it was in the realm of basic first aid or the type of courses where the content of the course presumes that first responders are on their way and a hospital an ambulance ride away.. The above is a long route to suggesting that hand-in-hand with developing suggestions for a kit (and perhaps even prior to developing a kit), especially a kit with prescription medicines ready-at-hand, we should be looking at the various training opportunities in our respective countries and urging OCC members to get the training necessary to use the kits effectively. I would want to suggest, that once one gets adequately trained, that the kit choices will largely fall into place and that it is the un-trained who will be confused and bewildered and looking to others for help: in other words, if you are confused about what your kit should contain, then you probably need training (or more training in depth). My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

Medical Seminar for OCC Members

simoncurrin — Wed, 06 Feb 2019 18:42:06 GMT

Daria A Best Practices Document would be an excellent outcome and it would be great if you could undertake this when you have time. Maria is currently running her Delphi study having surveyed ARC kits in 2018. Her original research will do a great deal to add authority to the Best Practices Document when it is drafted. A great outcome for this Forum thread. Simon

Medical Seminar for OCC Members

DariaBlackwell — Tue, 05 Feb 2019 11:29:41 GMT

Dick, There is a new thread on medical kits already started. We should definitely cross reference the different threads. This Clozex product is fantastic for cruisers. I think a Best Practices article would be a really good way to summarise some of this information in a useful downloadable format. As a former medical writer, I'll talk to Simon about getting that done later this year.

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Dick — Mon, 17 Jul 2017 06:48:17 GMT

Hi Simon & Daria, It might be a good idea to garner all the posts pertaining to developing a medical kit for offshore boats in a separate topic. When I went to post the one pertaining to Clozex, I was not sure where to put it. It seems a topic worthy of its own stream. Dick

Medical Seminar for OCC Members

Dick — Mon, 17 Jul 2017 06:44:41 GMT

Hi all, In a series of emails with our fellow OCC member, Charles Starke, I have gleaned the following information from his writing for those who might be preparing/designing their medical kit. Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy Hi: I've tried these ([url=http://www.clozex.com/]http://www.clozex.com/[/url]) out and recommend that we add this article as a safety addition to the OCC website. They are excellent to carry aboard for lacerations, and can save time and cut risk. I had to staple myself up in 15 foot seas off Bora Bora without anesthesia and wish I had these instead. Best wishes, Charles Charles L Starke MD FACP The product is just coming out and I haven't found it yet online. Searches seem to lead to the old product, Steristrips. Steristrips are worth having too but the Clozex is a new development. " Clozex will be available in one to two months on their website ([url=http://www.clozex.com/]http://www.clozex.com/[/url]) and probably on Amazon. I have no economic relationship to Clozex.

Medical Seminar for OCC Members

derekbreth — Mon, 27 Mar 2017 23:43:48 GMT

Hi, As the recipient of Simon 's advice I can testify that it was first rate and very reassuring. We learned a lot, became confident in what we should and shouldn 't do and equipped ourselves with a number of useful meds. Thankfully 6 months and some 6,000 miles cruising later we haven 't had to use any but I would recommend that anyone who is not medically trained takes advantage of this type of seminar. This type of initiative is exactly where the OCC benefits cruisers and volunteers like Simon make it happen. Thanks all round.

Medical Seminar for OCC Members

simoncurrin — Mon, 27 Mar 2017 22:44:50 GMT

JoJo No the idea did not die and infact it went ahead. I got Committee approval and we did a Skype tutorial as time and geography conspired to make face to face impossible on that occasion. Having satisfied myself that the drugs were to be appropriately used I has happy to provide the prescriptions for most of the drugs on the list I posted some months ago. I just never got around to writing up the happy ending. Better still though is this projects knits very well with the Telemedicine project Susie Plume (s/v Adina) has been working for occ members as it provides boats with the tools required for a successful telemedicine consultation. If there is demand I 'd be happy to make this into a proper webinar which I think would be the only way of overcoming geographical constraints. Of course I can only prescribe for those in the U.K. I had no idea about your Ship 's Captain clause. That 's brilliant. Simon

Medical Seminar for OCC Members

archive — Mon, 27 Mar 2017 21:28:38 GMT

Hi Dick, I did not know anyone at the store. I found a regulation that stated that a ships captain, that will be sailing more than 150NM offshore, can order prescription drugs without a prescription. This was three years ago, but I will check on the boat tomorrow for more information. They checked and confirmed that this was possible, and I ordered everything I wanted. It was easy and straightforward. But I don 't know if this regulation has been changed. What happened about the idea of a OCC seminar and medical supply list? I would love to do some more training in this very important area. JoJo s/v Island Swift

Medical Seminar for OCC Members

Dick — Mon, 27 Mar 2017 21:13:58 GMT

Hi JoJO, Good report on the course and your success with the Pharmacy. I am pleased and a bit surprised that a big chain like Boots was so flexible. Were you familiar with them as a person/family? I do not know of a greater depth course in UK, just US. I would also try climbing/backpacker/back country sites. The skills are very similar. Let us know what you find. My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

Medical Seminar for OCC Members

archive — Mon, 27 Mar 2017 20:19:39 GMT

Wow what a wonderful thread! I have just joined and would love to know what happened about this idea? I managed to get prescription drugs with an prescription at Boots in Falmouth before we left. I took along ships papers, a letter explaining that we would be offshore cruising and they ordered nearly everything on the list. The things they did not order where because they could not get them. I was very surprised but please as my doctor was not going to help in any way. I would love to do an in-depth course, weekend course. I found the RYA course to be very basic. JoJO

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simoncurrin — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 19:42:40 GMT

Beth, That 's great I will add you to our growing list of volunteer medics for this project and will be in touch. Simon

Medical Seminar for OCC Members

Bethbone — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 17:00:01 GMT

Hi Simon, Happy to help in any way. I have now retired as a GP but still cruising. I seem to have spent a lot of time over the past 20 years cruising holding impromptu surgeries in exotic surroundings. Fellow cruisers are often anxious regarding the contents of their medical kits and the difficulties in obtaining replacements. Beth

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simoncurrin — Thu, 25 Feb 2016 18:41:01 GMT

Anne, Your attachment is not included in you post. This may be because the forum does not accept Word/Excel documents but prefers PDF 's. If you are struggling then please send to me and I will attach. My email is simon@medex.org.uk. Simon

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mrsannelloyd — Thu, 25 Feb 2016 17:20:13 GMT

This is a really first rate initiative. When preparing for our circumnavigation we spent some tim eon this but as if we were inventing th ewheel We used some other peoples lists and modified according to our understanding of risk/cost Evan Starzinger has a good list, our mentors gave us theirs and we found the contents list for Ocean Safety big kit. Plus lots of ideas bout hardware, sam splints etc We did get our GP to prescribe about 10 items, but in small quantities and with little interest on his part, Even as private prescriptions they were surprisingly inexpensive. Of course now we cannot remember expiry information on the drugs. So far incidents have been broken ribs [twice] and crush injuries to fingers. ie pain killers and bleeding. I look forward to developments. I would suggest any course be run near Christmas, as many of us long distance types return for that occasionally! But an OCC kit list: Drugs/equipment etc would be grand, plus a course [too late for us] The RYA first aid course- every incident finished with a defibrillator it seemed! I have added our prescription drugs list. I do worry about the co codomol but so far no reactions by officialdom. [Attachment will not attach} Anne

Medical Seminar for OCC Members

simoncurrin — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 19:53:09 GMT

David, Our circumnavigation is in chunks so keeping one foot in the work place. Simon Daria, I would prefer not to put anything on Facebook for now as I think this needs to be discussed in Committee first. I have a draft paper to circulate in time for the February Committee Meeting. Simon