Safety for Cruising Couples - learn what to do should the unexpected happen.


Safety for Cruising Couples - learn what to do should the unexpected...
Author
Message
martintsmith@aol.com
martintsmith@aol.com
Junior Member (55 reputation)Junior Member (55 reputation)Junior Member (55 reputation)Junior Member (55 reputation)Junior Member (55 reputation)Junior Member (55 reputation)Junior Member (55 reputation)Junior Member (55 reputation)Junior Member (55 reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 43, Visits: 182
Dick - 27 Dec 2023
Re the discussion on the webinar about M.O.B.s; One method often taught at sailing schools with several crew is whoever sees the victim fall in is to shout 'Man Overboard', a crew member is assigned just to keep the victim in sight, the boat is hove to which usually bring the vessel upwind of the victim so that the lifebuoy can be released and drift downwind to them, the mainsail is pinned in, the engine started, the boat motored to be down wind of the victim and the headsail rolled away, an upwind approach is made so the boat comes alongside the victim  and is stopped and the person is somehow hauled aboard. (Sorry, I am sure you all know the above without me repeating it!)
On a boat sailed by a couple there is a danger of the one person left aboard losing sight of the victim.
A few years ago I met a man who had given a lot of thought to M.O.B. on boats sailed by couples and he showed me the following drill. The one person left on board turns the wheel right over and clamps it and as the boat comes up into the wind quickly moves forward to sheet in and pin in the main. The boat will now go round in circles (how many depends on the strength of the wind) looking after itself as it were. The one person left on board then can consider the best way to retrieve the victim.
The main advantage of this method is that it keep the boat close to the person in the water.
I would be interested to know what people think of this system and who else has tried it.
It does of course it depends a bit on the layout of your wheel and mainsheet as to whether you could do it on your boat.
As mentioned last night actually getting the person out of the water and back on board is most probably going to be the hardest part of the operation. What I have done on 'Chardonnay' is to lengthen the topping lift (which is led back to a cockpit winch and easily removed from the end of the boom)  so it is plenty long enough to reach the water and thus could be used to winch someone out of the water.
Merry Christmas to all OCC members
Martin       Yacht 'Chardonnay of Solent'
 


Hi Martin,
The hard over and locking the wheel works best if close hauled: the farther off the wind you are, the less effective it is and at a certain point is dangerous to both crew and boat.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

Hi Dick
Re the wheel hard over manoeuvre; provided the main is sheeted in and made fast, what do you think is dangerous.  Having practiced the drill a few times I do wonder if there is a danger of the boat hitting the M.O.B. if the boat is 'circled' too quickly after him or her has fallen in!
Dick
Dick
Forum Expert (905 reputation)Forum Expert (905 reputation)Forum Expert (905 reputation)Forum Expert (905 reputation)Forum Expert (905 reputation)Forum Expert (905 reputation)Forum Expert (905 reputation)Forum Expert (905 reputation)Forum Expert (905 reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 936, Visits: 1.3K
Dick - 27 Dec 2023
Re the discussion on the webinar about M.O.B.s; One method often taught at sailing schools with several crew is whoever sees the victim fall in is to shout 'Man Overboard', a crew member is assigned just to keep the victim in sight, the boat is hove to which usually bring the vessel upwind of the victim so that the lifebuoy can be released and drift downwind to them, the mainsail is pinned in, the engine started, the boat motored to be down wind of the victim and the headsail rolled away, an upwind approach is made so the boat comes alongside the victim  and is stopped and the person is somehow hauled aboard. (Sorry, I am sure you all know the above without me repeating it!)
On a boat sailed by a couple there is a danger of the one person left aboard losing sight of the victim.
A few years ago I met a man who had given a lot of thought to M.O.B. on boats sailed by couples and he showed me the following drill. The one person left on board turns the wheel right over and clamps it and as the boat comes up into the wind quickly moves forward to sheet in and pin in the main. The boat will now go round in circles (how many depends on the strength of the wind) looking after itself as it were. The one person left on board then can consider the best way to retrieve the victim.
The main advantage of this method is that it keep the boat close to the person in the water.
I would be interested to know what people think of this system and who else has tried it.
It does of course it depends a bit on the layout of your wheel and mainsheet as to whether you could do it on your boat.
As mentioned last night actually getting the person out of the water and back on board is most probably going to be the hardest part of the operation. What I have done on 'Chardonnay' is to lengthen the topping lift (which is led back to a cockpit winch and easily removed from the end of the boom)  so it is plenty long enough to reach the water and thus could be used to winch someone out of the water.
Merry Christmas to all OCC members
Martin       Yacht 'Chardonnay of Solent'
 


Hi Martin,
The hard over and locking the wheel works best if close hauled: the farther off the wind you are, the less effective it is and at a certain point is dangerous to both crew and boat.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

Hi Dick
Re the wheel hard over manoeuvre; provided the main is sheeted in and made fast, what do you think is dangerous.  Having practiced the drill a few times I do wonder if there is a danger of the boat hitting the M.O.B. if the boat is 'circled' too quickly after him or her has fallen in!

Hi Martin,
Throwing the helm over and locking it, when close hauled, boom and headsail are strapped in tight and not going anywhere. Putting the wheel hard over and locking it should put you initially into an over-canvassed hove-to position and starting, depending on underbody configuration I would guess, to do a slow 360. There should be plenty of time to keep an eye on the COB (especially if a pylon is deployed) and not hit the COB. Also, my experience in drills is that it is unlikely.
The farther off the wind one is, the less the boom and headsail(s) are strapped down tight. If close reaching or beam reaching, the boom might be vanged, but is unlikely to be prevented (there is a lot to be said for safety’s sake for “preventing” a boom whenever it is not strapped straight down to the traveler). So, throwing the wheel over is going to have the boom sweeping the cockpit and deck as it flies to the other side of the boat. I consider the boom the most dangerous object on the boat and not something that should be loose in a fire-drill of any sort, let alone a COB situation where anxiety is high and attention is focused off the boat.
Just recent there were deaths aboard a larger boat crossing the Atlantic which unfolded in roughly this fashion and involved the boom hitting a crew on the head and sweeping her overboard. In the confusion of cascading problems on this experienced and well crewed (4?) boat 2 died if my memory is good.
In addition to the boom, the sheets for the main and headsails will be loose and flapping around and, in any wind, this could be quite dangerous and could lead to injury, and certainly to confusion: close hauled the sheets and boom would never be slack after the wheel went hard over.
Dead down wind presents another set of challenges for COB. Leave it to say, that throwing the helm hard over is likely not wise if flying a conventional spinnaker, a poled-out head sail, or an asym: the three most likely ways to get DDW. It is likely the headsail or spinny needs to taken ion first and the pole made fast and kept from being a danger.
Come back with questions/comments/thoughts, my best, Dick

Reg.Barker
Reg.Barker
New Member (9 reputation)New Member (9 reputation)New Member (9 reputation)New Member (9 reputation)New Member (9 reputation)New Member (9 reputation)New Member (9 reputation)New Member (9 reputation)New Member (9 reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3, Visits: 1
I missed the webinar first time around but have just listened to it on playback. Thank you to all who contributed to an interesting discussion.

The challenge of getting a casualty back on board was rightly mentioned as a significant concern, particularly for yachts normally crewed by a husband and wife team. Sailing course practices tend to focus on getting the casualty alongside the yacht and then stop there. A few years ago I took my work colleagues on a team building few days which we spent on a sailing yacht to put the group in an environment that was outside of their normal comfort zone; the majority had never been on a sailing yacht before. They got familiar with winches, working together to hoist and lower the sails and, as soon as we were in a safe area of sea, we completed an MOB drill with a weighed down fender as per normal sailing courses. We then worked on the teamwork and communication needed to pick up a mooring buoy. Once we were attached to the mooring buoy, I asked them to inflate the dinghy and to tie it alongside the yacht. I then lay in the dinghy drinking a mug of coffee and posed them the challenge of going back to the MOB drill and asked them how they would get me back on board simulating that I was now a casualty in the water alongside the yacht.

Dry and relatively comfortably laid out in the bottom of the dinghy, I got through several mugs of coffee as they worked through their new-found knowledge of winches, spinnaker halyards and blocks & tackles on a leaderless exercise on how to get my dead weight back on board. Other than extending the spinnaker halyard which was too short to reach the water, the block and tackle proved to be ineffective with too little purchase. The best solution turned out to be a strop under my arms and a second strop behind my knees, both attached to the spinnaker halyard. A single strop under my arms (or clipped onto the lifejacket D ring) was quicker (and more painful) but my legs got in the way of the guard rails and it was harder to manoeuvre me on board. Interestingly, the inexperienced team realised that we were in a benign situation and that with the sails up and in windy conditions, or if there were a sea running, as they hoisted me out of the water on the spinnaker halyard, I might swing away from the yacht out of reach. We discussed that I should have been attached to the mid-point of the yacht with rope or similar to stop me drifting away whilst the spinnaker halyard and strops were rigged. However, they concluded that with guard rails getting in the way it would be worth having several spare safety lines with clips at each end to help with the lifting process to keep the casualty close and under control in the likely heavy sea conditions of a real emergency situation.

During the OCC debate it was highlighted that practicing manoeuvres was a good idea. For anyone wanting to practice getting an immobile casualty back on board a yacht I would recommend they simulate that with the casualty lying in a dinghy tied alongside the yacht when anchored or secured to a buoy. It wasn’t 100% authentic but it was close enough and, most importantly, it allowed rigging the strops and the lifting technique to be practiced safely without risk of the simulated casualty getting hypothermic or drifting away. It was a very worthwhile exercise.

Dick
Dick
Forum Expert (905 reputation)Forum Expert (905 reputation)Forum Expert (905 reputation)Forum Expert (905 reputation)Forum Expert (905 reputation)Forum Expert (905 reputation)Forum Expert (905 reputation)Forum Expert (905 reputation)Forum Expert (905 reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 936, Visits: 1.3K
Reg.Barker - 5 Jan 2024
I missed the webinar first time around but have just listened to it on playback. Thank you to all who contributed to an interesting discussion.

The challenge of getting a casualty back on board was rightly mentioned as a significant concern, particularly for yachts normally crewed by a husband and wife team. Sailing course practices tend to focus on getting the casualty alongside the yacht and then stop there. A few years ago I took my work colleagues on a team building few days which we spent on a sailing yacht to put the group in an environment that was outside of their normal comfort zone; the majority had never been on a sailing yacht before. They got familiar with winches, working together to hoist and lower the sails and, as soon as we were in a safe area of sea, we completed an MOB drill with a weighed down fender as per normal sailing courses. We then worked on the teamwork and communication needed to pick up a mooring buoy. Once we were attached to the mooring buoy, I asked them to inflate the dinghy and to tie it alongside the yacht. I then lay in the dinghy drinking a mug of coffee and posed them the challenge of going back to the MOB drill and asked them how they would get me back on board simulating that I was now a casualty in the water alongside the yacht.

Dry and relatively comfortably laid out in the bottom of the dinghy, I got through several mugs of coffee as they worked through their new-found knowledge of winches, spinnaker halyards and blocks & tackles on a leaderless exercise on how to get my dead weight back on board. Other than extending the spinnaker halyard which was too short to reach the water, the block and tackle proved to be ineffective with too little purchase. The best solution turned out to be a strop under my arms and a second strop behind my knees, both attached to the spinnaker halyard. A single strop under my arms (or clipped onto the lifejacket D ring) was quicker (and more painful) but my legs got in the way of the guard rails and it was harder to manoeuvre me on board. Interestingly, the inexperienced team realised that we were in a benign situation and that with the sails up and in windy conditions, or if there were a sea running, as they hoisted me out of the water on the spinnaker halyard, I might swing away from the yacht out of reach. We discussed that I should have been attached to the mid-point of the yacht with rope or similar to stop me drifting away whilst the spinnaker halyard and strops were rigged. However, they concluded that with guard rails getting in the way it would be worth having several spare safety lines with clips at each end to help with the lifting process to keep the casualty close and under control in the likely heavy sea conditions of a real emergency situation.

During the OCC debate it was highlighted that practicing manoeuvres was a good idea. For anyone wanting to practice getting an immobile casualty back on board a yacht I would recommend they simulate that with the casualty lying in a dinghy tied alongside the yacht when anchored or secured to a buoy. It wasn’t 100% authentic but it was close enough and, most importantly, it allowed rigging the strops and the lifting technique to be practiced safely without risk of the simulated casualty getting hypothermic or drifting away. It was a very worthwhile exercise.
Hi Reg,
Thanks for the acknowledging the webinar: it is appreciated.
And I commend you on addressing the challenge of getting a crew back on board in such a realistic fashion: elsewhere on the OCC Forum I describe a COB drill that mimics the “real” thing in much the same way.
There are a couple of pre-departure preparations that make crew retrieval a tad easier: Simon has mentioned having a long enough halyard that enables the COB to clip on while in the water and, at the other end, gets to a winch*. I think that is wise and is the way Alchemy is set up: 2 halyards (spare and main) are overlength, one for a port side pick-up and one for a starboard and each can get to a winch.
The other preparation is the swap out your lifeline turnbuckles for lashings. This allows the lifeline’s lashings to be quickly cut and the lifelines dropped to the deck. This facilitates retrieval dramatically: the COB is only needed to be raised to just above deck level: he can slide along the hull. The lifelines no longer add another 30 inches of raising and now pose no hazard to the COB equipment getting hung up on the small diameter life line. (Obviously, but worth mentioning: without lifelines, crew need to be careful not to add to the problem by falling overboard. Emergency procedures/attitudes could be another worthwhile topic.)
I will mention another item to consider: an Ewincher. Getting a soaking wet and very tired/scared crew out of the water is no mean feat. The Ewincher turns every winch into an electric winch. We have had ours for 3-4 seasons now and keep finding ways to appreciate it.** It would definitely facilitate COB retrieval.
My thoughts, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
*Some advocate using a block and tackle and Lifesling, an otherwise good product, sells one to go into their COB deploy bag, I believe. The challenge is: 1. you have to use a halyard anyway to get the b&t high enough to use and get the COB to deck level, 2. A fully clothed crew with lifejacket sopping wet is going to be a physical challenge to hoist. At 4-1 advantage one will, at best probably, pulling 40-50 feet of line at a 50 pound effort each pull.
**Getting dinghy on board, windlass motor dies, getting crew up the mast, and, of course, any winch work for handling the sails is made easier.



GO

Merge Selected

Merge into selected topic...



Merge into merge target...



Merge into a specific topic ID...




Login

Search