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John Chandler
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I have no less than 8 of these beautiful looking winches on my boat, 4 of which are electrically operated.
Unfortunately one of the electric ones has developed a problem in the gearbox/motor area and needs stripping and servicing. (It still looks good though!)
Andersen do have a fixed price charge for this, but it is an eye-watering £1800+ plus shipping from the Caribbean and back.
Has anyone out there ever taken one of these gearbox/motor units apart? If so, would they be prepared to share their experience with me?
Just to clarify, the winch itself is fine and can be used manually (now I have removed the drive pinion from the stiff gearbox).
The gearbox has 750403 stamped into it's casting and looks like it should come apart with a suitably made giant "C" spanner.
Anyone?
All help is appreciated!
John
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Dick
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 970,
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+xI have no less than 8 of these beautiful looking winches on my boat, 4 of which are electrically operated. Unfortunately one of the electric ones has developed a problem in the gearbox/motor area and needs stripping and servicing. (It still looks good though!) Andersen do have a fixed price charge for this, but it is an eye-watering £1800+ plus shipping from the Caribbean and back. Has anyone out there ever taken one of these gearbox/motor units apart? If so, would they be prepared to share their experience with me? Just to clarify, the winch itself is fine and can be used manually (now I have removed the drive pinion from the stiff gearbox). The gearbox has 750403 stamped into it's casting and looks like it should come apart with a suitably made giant "C" spanner. Anyone? All help is appreciated! John Hi John, 1800 pounds seems absurd. Not sure what you mean by stiff gear box. A winch is all gearing and, if stiff, I would presume dirt/gunk and it needs a good cleaning & lubricating. Directions likely by googling, but, usually, the doing is not rocket science and needs no specialty tools. Every skipper should get to know how to do this as it is, to my mind, just busy work that a rigger will charge major money for as it is time consuming. If full time cruising in salt water, once per year stripping and lubing is not unreasonable. So, if I read you correctly, the winch works fine in manual mode without the drive pinion. Therefore, I would guess, the problem lies in the motor or, perhaps, in the parts transmitting the power from the motor to the gearing of the winch. I assume the electrical has been checked out. My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
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John Chandler
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 5,
Visits: 1
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+x+xI have no less than 8 of these beautiful looking winches on my boat, 4 of which are electrically operated. Unfortunately one of the electric ones has developed a problem in the gearbox/motor area and needs stripping and servicing. (It still looks good though!) Andersen do have a fixed price charge for this, but it is an eye-watering £1800+ plus shipping from the Caribbean and back. Has anyone out there ever taken one of these gearbox/motor units apart? If so, would they be prepared to share their experience with me? Just to clarify, the winch itself is fine and can be used manually (now I have removed the drive pinion from the stiff gearbox). The gearbox has 750403 stamped into it's casting and looks like it should come apart with a suitably made giant "C" spanner. Anyone? All help is appreciated! John Hi John, 1800 pounds seems absurd. Not sure what you mean by stiff gear box. A winch is all gearing and, if stiff, I would presume dirt/gunk and it needs a good cleaning & lubricating. Directions likely by googling, but, usually, the doing is not rocket science and needs no specialty tools. Every skipper should get to know how to do this as it is, to my mind, just busy work that a rigger will charge major money for as it is time consuming. If full time cruising in salt water, once per year stripping and lubing is not unreasonable. So, if I read you correctly, the winch works fine in manual mode without the drive pinion. Therefore, I would guess, the problem lies in the motor or, perhaps, in the parts transmitting the power from the motor to the gearing of the winch. I assume the electrical has been checked out. My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy Hi Dick, Thanks for taking the time to reply. The winches are all serviced periodically (I won't say annually :D). The problem lies in the motor/gearbox unit and I suspect it is down to corrosion or lack of lubrication inside the "gearbox". Mechanically this is a motor driving a "worm" gear which then drives the output shaft from the gearbox into the winch itself. The worm gear and motor sit in an oilbath and there is no sign of an oil leak. The unit is a separate unit that can be removed without affecting the operation of the winch (other than it is no longer electrically driven when the thing is removed!) There is a service kit for the newer "compact" gearbox/motor from Andersen which includes a seal for the output shaft of the gearbox and (according to Andersen) this should be changed every couple of years. Alas, for the older ones there is no such service kit and no clue as to how to perform this. With the gearbox/motor disconnected from the winch (by removing the drive pinion) the winch turns freely. Powering the disconnected gearbox the output shaft turns very slowly and draws enough current to trip the built-in limiter. There are no nasty noises whilst it is turning - it's just very slow and obviously fighting some internal mechanical restriction. It looks like I'll just have to bite the bullet and dismantle this using my own ingenuity :D Thanks for looking and replying anyway... Best wishes, John SV "Maya"
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Dick
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 970,
Visits: 1.3K
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+x+x+xI have no less than 8 of these beautiful looking winches on my boat, 4 of which are electrically operated. Unfortunately one of the electric ones has developed a problem in the gearbox/motor area and needs stripping and servicing. (It still looks good though!) Andersen do have a fixed price charge for this, but it is an eye-watering £1800+ plus shipping from the Caribbean and back. Has anyone out there ever taken one of these gearbox/motor units apart? If so, would they be prepared to share their experience with me? Just to clarify, the winch itself is fine and can be used manually (now I have removed the drive pinion from the stiff gearbox). The gearbox has 750403 stamped into it's casting and looks like it should come apart with a suitably made giant "C" spanner. Anyone? All help is appreciated! John Hi John, 1800 pounds seems absurd. Not sure what you mean by stiff gear box. A winch is all gearing and, if stiff, I would presume dirt/gunk and it needs a good cleaning & lubricating. Directions likely by googling, but, usually, the doing is not rocket science and needs no specialty tools. Every skipper should get to know how to do this as it is, to my mind, just busy work that a rigger will charge major money for as it is time consuming. If full time cruising in salt water, once per year stripping and lubing is not unreasonable. So, if I read you correctly, the winch works fine in manual mode without the drive pinion. Therefore, I would guess, the problem lies in the motor or, perhaps, in the parts transmitting the power from the motor to the gearing of the winch. I assume the electrical has been checked out. My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy Hi Dick, Thanks for taking the time to reply. The winches are all serviced periodically (I won't say annually :D). The problem lies in the motor/gearbox unit and I suspect it is down to corrosion or lack of lubrication inside the "gearbox". Mechanically this is a motor driving a "worm" gear which then drives the output shaft from the gearbox into the winch itself. The worm gear and motor sit in an oilbath and there is no sign of an oil leak. The unit is a separate unit that can be removed without affecting the operation of the winch (other than it is no longer electrically driven when the thing is removed!) There is a service kit for the newer "compact" gearbox/motor from Andersen which includes a seal for the output shaft of the gearbox and (according to Andersen) this should be changed every couple of years. Alas, for the older ones there is no such service kit and no clue as to how to perform this. With the gearbox/motor disconnected from the winch (by removing the drive pinion) the winch turns freely. Powering the disconnected gearbox the output shaft turns very slowly and draws enough current to trip the built-in limiter. There are no nasty noises whilst it is turning - it's just very slow and obviously fighting some internal mechanical restriction. It looks like I'll just have to bite the bullet and dismantle this using my own ingenuity :D Thanks for looking and replying anyway... Best wishes, John SV "Maya" Hi John, Thanks for the fill. See below for thoughts I wrote on “repairs”: part of a series that I wrote for the OCC bulletin a while back. So, if I understand correctly, the problem lies in the motor and/or the gearing part of the motor that transmits the power to the winch: perhaps internal corrosion through the seal or the like. Assuming Andersen used good metals for salt water, the mechanical side is probably OK (unless gummed with salt accumulation) which leaves the electrical/motor side for examination. A thought: if the motor/drive pinion of your winches are all the same, then perhaps it would make sense to have a whole brand new spare that you could just swap into the winch. Then the motor assembly could be repaired at leisure and when convenient while retaining powered use of all winches (and then stored as a back-up spare. Good luck with the repair. My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy Do No Harm It is in the nature of cruising widely that skippers occasionally have to repair a system about which they may have little knowledge. It has been my experience and observation that there are some skills which make it quite likely that one will succeed in the repair. My first “rule” is taken right out of medical training: “Do No Harm”. The primary danger where experience and knowledge are limited is that, in the poking around searching for a solution, that matters are made worse. Next worry is that you do not document how items came apart. Please! Do not rely on memory: your smart-phone camera is an impressive tool in this regard. The best insurance to doing no harm is to proceed slowly and thoughtfully: usually there is no rush. In addition to photos, take real-time notes: partly as the notes will be helpful, but also because the taking of notes is a marvelous stimulus to creative problem solving. It is far too easy to get stuck in a limited line of thinking. The next and last tool to be mentioned is persistence. If one persists in poking around and resists doing harm, the problem is very likely to reveal itself. Give yourself the mind-set to persist: tell yourself that you are learning about the system at hand, rather than repairing it. Make it fun and feed your curiosity and you will very likely execute the repair. At worst, you will have a better knowledge of the problem and what the next step is. Safe sailing, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
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Simon Currin
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Group: Administrators
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We had an Anderson electric winch fail when it was about 10 years old. They quoted a set ice cost but, in the end, did the work for nothing.
Simon
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John Chandler
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 5,
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+xWe had an Anderson electric winch fail when it was about 10 years old. They quoted a set ice cost but, in the end, did the work for nothing.Simon Hi Simon, Thanks for taking the time to reply. Similar symptoms? Did you have to take the gearbox & motor apart? I want to know how to do this. Here's hoping for a reply! Jhn
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Simon Currin
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Group: Administrators
Posts: 1K,
Visits: 86
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+x+xWe had an Anderson electric winch fail when it was about 10 years old. They quoted a set ice cost but, in the end, did the work for nothing.Simon Hi Simon, Thanks for taking the time to reply. Similar symptoms? Did you have to take the gearbox & motor apart? I want to know how to do this. Here's hoping for a reply! Jhn
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Simon Currin
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Group: Administrators
Posts: 1K,
Visits: 86
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+x+xWe had an Anderson electric winch fail when it was about 10 years old. They quoted a set ice cost but, in the end, did the work for nothing.Simon Hi Simon, Thanks for taking the time to reply. Similar symptoms? Did you have to take the gearbox & motor apart? I want to know how to do this. Here's hoping for a reply! Jhn John, Yes we had to dismantle it but it wasn't too difficult. Just awkward to get access from below. As we were in Greenland we just sent the gearbox back to Andersen who replaced the gears if I remember correctly. On our's the motor ran but the gears had disengaged so we could still use the winch manually. If in doubt give the guys in Denmark a call. I dealt with Erik Fruergaad. I have is email address if it helps but won't post it here. Email me if you would like me to send it to you. The repairs were done in 2017 and it has been fine ever since. Simon
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John Chandler
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 5,
Visits: 1
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+x+x+xWe had an Anderson electric winch fail when it was about 10 years old. They quoted a set ice cost but, in the end, did the work for nothing.Simon Hi Simon, Thanks for taking the time to reply. Similar symptoms? Did you have to take the gearbox & motor apart? I want to know how to do this. Here's hoping for a reply! Jhn John, Yes we had to dismantle it but it wasn't too difficult. Just awkward to get access from below. As we were in Greenland we just sent the gearbox back to Andersen who replaced the gears if I remember correctly. On our's the motor ran but the gears had disengaged so we could still use the winch manually. If in doubt give the guys in Denmark a call. I dealt with Erik Fruergaad. I have is email address if it helps but won't post it here. Email me if you would like me to send it to you. The repairs were done in 2017 and it has been fine ever since. Simon Hi Simon, I've already dealt with Erik, who suggested contacting IMProducts in the UK, who then came up with an eye-watering price for servicing! It was nearly as expensive as simply replacing the entire motor & gearbox assembly. Currently we're seeing if we can live without this winch - it's only used on the in-boom furling system and we can manage that by hand. As with yours, access is tricky as the boat builder (Najad) appear to have put the winch in place and then constructed the galley area over it. Thanks for your replies anyway - oh, why did Andersen not charge in the end?? Rgds, John
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Simon Currin
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Group: Administrators
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John,
Erik referred me to the UK dealer initially but accepted the work when I explained the boat was not in the UK. I read my correspondence with him and all he had to do was re-rivet the planetary gear which, I suspect, was not much work with the right tools.
Simon
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