A new state of the art nav system


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Sandy.Herbert
Sandy.Herbert
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I want to replace my existing navigation hardware and I am looking for advice on the state of the art.
My present system is 12 years old. It consists of two Garmin GPSmap 4008s, one at the chart table and one on the binnacle. They are networked and both can be used to display maps, follow routes, display AIS targets, control and display the radar and all the other stuff they do like display tides, show wind graphs etc. etc.
I use a PC and OpenCPN or Homeport to do routing and transfer the routes using SD cards ( no WiFi on these old systems). Up till now I have used a sat phone to connect to the Internet and to download grib files using Sailmail or similar. I use the PC and OpenCPN to display the grib files. I have a Vesper AIS which is also my WiFi hub.
This system does everything I want and has served me well.
However the GPSmaps are getting old and are classed as legacy devices by Garmin. I managed to update the OS recently which has prolonged their lives but I can see the end coming. The plotters don't support the most recent Garmin maps and can't read any other format. Also Garmin maps are fantastically expensive.
I am a bit out of the cruising network and I would like to know what people are installing now for long distance offshore cruising. Ideally I would like a system not based on a dedicated plotter. However, I do want a reliable system and if this means a brand plotter so be it. I would also like to know what people are installing for satellite communications and weather. Answers from real experience please rather than speculation.
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Dick
Dick
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Simon Currin - 21 Nov 2024
Sandy,

I’m afraid to say I say we all weather on an iPhone (courtesy of PredictWind) which works very well for us but I know traditionalists would not approve. Connections is via to Starlink with Iridium as a backup - though we may dispense with the latter next season given it’s cost.

Simon


Sandy.Herbert - 21 Nov 2024
Simon Currin - 19 Nov 2024
Sandy,

We did a similar upgrade last year and can share the mistake we made!

We decided to save a few pennies by opting for two touchscreen Raymarine MFD’s (Axiom). The one at the nav station is fine but the one at the helm goes crazy when it is raining as the rain drops trigger MoB’s and all sorts of nonsense. This is easily overcome by switching off the touchscreen but we then have no way of interacting with the device when the screen is wet. We have had to buy networked remote controls which was rather more expensive than buying an MFD with in-built manual knobs and buttons.

With the above caveat the new network is a vast improvement on what we had before.

As for satellite / weather the combination of PredictWind and Starlink is very powerful and substantially cheaper than Iridium or installing SSB. We found PredictWind’s ‘over the horizon AIS’ a great tool for various niche reasons I won’t bore you with.

Simon

Sandy.Herbert - 19 Nov 2024
I want to replace my existing navigation hardware and I am looking for advice on the state of the art.
My present system is 12 years old. It consists of two Garmin GPSmap 4008s, one at the chart table and one on the binnacle. They are networked and both can be used to display maps, follow routes, display AIS targets, control and display the radar and all the other stuff they do like display tides, show wind graphs etc. etc.
I use a PC and OpenCPN or Homeport to do routing and transfer the routes using SD cards ( no WiFi on these old systems). Up till now I have used a sat phone to connect to the Internet and to download grib files using Sailmail or similar. I use the PC and OpenCPN to display the grib files. I have a Vesper AIS which is also my WiFi hub.
This system does everything I want and has served me well.
However the GPSmaps are getting old and are classed as legacy devices by Garmin. I managed to update the OS recently which has prolonged their lives but I can see the end coming. The plotters don't support the most recent Garmin maps and can't read any other format. Also Garmin maps are fantastically expensive.
I am a bit out of the cruising network and I would like to know what people are installing now for long distance offshore cruising. Ideally I would like a system not based on a dedicated plotter. However, I do want a reliable system and if this means a brand plotter so be it. I would also like to know what people are installing for satellite communications and weather. Answers from real experience please rather than speculation.



Thanks for this reply. What do you do for routing and weather? Do you do it directly on the plotters?



Hi Sandy,
I have used a paid router only a few times, but always generated my own routing out 3 days using existing weather forecasts including wind/wave. I then take the paid for route and compare. If similar, I am happy: any discrepancies, I ask the router why.
For example, I used a router from Iceland to Greenland. He had me going farther S than I had worked out. He said he had kept me S as there was a low lurking in Canada and coming my way 3-5 days out. It was forecast to stay N of rhumb line and not be a bother, but if it tracked a more southerly route, it could bring significant headwinds and some ugly weather. So, he had me going S and added a few miles but meant I might have greater options if the low tracked S.
I have never used a computer-generated route program, but have heard they exist. I would do the same as above and try to figure out why if significant discrepancies occur.
One of the benefits of generating your own route is that you have much greater situational awareness if/when weather does not unfold as forecast. This means you are already up-to-speed on the whole picture and able to respond without going back to the drawing-board.
It helps greatly write down a day-by-day anticipation of the passage. For example: day three, noon, winds SSE at 15kn T, bar xyz inches, cloudy, wind expected to veer, rain possible. You do this pretty much when doing route planning, but written down you notice things like a low approaching faster than anticipated by the bar pressure dropping earlier or the wind is doing something which needs explaining.
As the passage proceeds, I am always revising the route daily out at least 3 days as the forecast changes.
Come back with questions.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

Sandy.Herbert
Sandy.Herbert
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Dick - 21 Nov 2024
Simon Currin - 21 Nov 2024
Sandy,

I’m afraid to say I say we all weather on an iPhone (courtesy of PredictWind) which works very well for us but I know traditionalists would not approve. Connections is via to Starlink with Iridium as a backup - though we may dispense with the latter next season given it’s cost.

Simon


Sandy.Herbert - 21 Nov 2024
Simon Currin - 19 Nov 2024
Sandy,

We did a similar upgrade last year and can share the mistake we made!

We decided to save a few pennies by opting for two touchscreen Raymarine MFD’s (Axiom). The one at the nav station is fine but the one at the helm goes crazy when it is raining as the rain drops trigger MoB’s and all sorts of nonsense. This is easily overcome by switching off the touchscreen but we then have no way of interacting with the device when the screen is wet. We have had to buy networked remote controls which was rather more expensive than buying an MFD with in-built manual knobs and buttons.

With the above caveat the new network is a vast improvement on what we had before.

As for satellite / weather the combination of PredictWind and Starlink is very powerful and substantially cheaper than Iridium or installing SSB. We found PredictWind’s ‘over the horizon AIS’ a great tool for various niche reasons I won’t bore you with.

Simon

Sandy.Herbert - 19 Nov 2024
I want to replace my existing navigation hardware and I am looking for advice on the state of the art.
My present system is 12 years old. It consists of two Garmin GPSmap 4008s, one at the chart table and one on the binnacle. They are networked and both can be used to display maps, follow routes, display AIS targets, control and display the radar and all the other stuff they do like display tides, show wind graphs etc. etc.
I use a PC and OpenCPN or Homeport to do routing and transfer the routes using SD cards ( no WiFi on these old systems). Up till now I have used a sat phone to connect to the Internet and to download grib files using Sailmail or similar. I use the PC and OpenCPN to display the grib files. I have a Vesper AIS which is also my WiFi hub.
This system does everything I want and has served me well.
However the GPSmaps are getting old and are classed as legacy devices by Garmin. I managed to update the OS recently which has prolonged their lives but I can see the end coming. The plotters don't support the most recent Garmin maps and can't read any other format. Also Garmin maps are fantastically expensive.
I am a bit out of the cruising network and I would like to know what people are installing now for long distance offshore cruising. Ideally I would like a system not based on a dedicated plotter. However, I do want a reliable system and if this means a brand plotter so be it. I would also like to know what people are installing for satellite communications and weather. Answers from real experience please rather than speculation.



Thanks for this reply. What do you do for routing and weather? Do you do it directly on the plotters?



Hi Sandy,
I have used a paid router only a few times, but always generated my own routing out 3 days using existing weather forecasts including wind/wave. I then take the paid for route and compare. If similar, I am happy: any discrepancies, I ask the router why.
For example, I used a router from Iceland to Greenland. He had me going farther S than I had worked out. He said he had kept me S as there was a low lurking in Canada and coming my way 3-5 days out. It was forecast to stay N of rhumb line and not be a bother, but if it tracked a more southerly route, it could bring significant headwinds and some ugly weather. So, he had me going S and added a few miles but meant I might have greater options if the low tracked S.
I have never used a computer-generated route program, but have heard they exist. I would do the same as above and try to figure out why if significant discrepancies occur.
One of the benefits of generating your own route is that you have much greater situational awareness if/when weather does not unfold as forecast. This means you are already up-to-speed on the whole picture and able to respond without going back to the drawing-board.
It helps greatly write down a day-by-day anticipation of the passage. For example: day three, noon, winds SSE at 15kn T, bar xyz inches, cloudy, wind expected to veer, rain possible. You do this pretty much when doing route planning, but written down you notice things like a low approaching faster than anticipated by the bar pressure dropping earlier or the wind is doing something which needs explaining.
As the passage proceeds, I am always revising the route daily out at least 3 days as the forecast changes.
Come back with questions.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

The only time I have used someone to help me with timing and weather was for the passage between Madagascar and Richards Bay in South Africa. Everyone including me seemed to be terrified of the South African coast and it was a great comfort to have the advice of someone who knew the area well.
Otherwise for offshore stuff I downloaded grib files using Sailmail and overlaid them on the chart and planned my route accordingly. I guess this is already getting to be old technology though.
GO

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Sandy.Herbert - 19 Nov 2024
simoncurrin - 19 Nov 2024
Dick - 21 Nov 2024
Sandy.Herbert - 21 Nov 2024
Sandy.Herbert - 21 Nov 2024
simoncurrin - 21 Nov 2024
Dick - 21 Nov 2024
                         The only time I have used someone to help me with timing and weather...
Sandy.Herbert - 21 Nov 2024
Sandy.Herbert - 21 Nov 2024
simoncurrin - 21 Nov 2024
                             But on an iphone? How does that work? I tried to use the PC version of...
Sandy.Herbert - 21 Nov 2024
                             When I tried to use Windy for route planning the way I understood it...
Sandy.Herbert - 21 Nov 2024
                         Sandy,No you do not import the Route into Windy. Use the Windy Hub App...
simoncurrin - 21 Nov 2024
                             Thanks. I saw the webinar on the events list but I was too late to...
Sandy.Herbert - 22 Nov 2024
                                 I just listened to the webinar. Thanks for that. Very good....
Sandy.Herbert - 23 Nov 2024
                                     Sandy, From memory the IridiumGo only got launched in 2015 and...
simoncurrin - 23 Nov 2024
                                         I must have got my wires crossed with the GO. Do you have enough...
Sandy.Herbert - 24 Nov 2024
                                             Sandy, I’ve been using Starlink since October’ ‘22 and it has worked...
simoncurrin - 24 Nov 2024
                                                 Thanks for the information
Sandy.Herbert - 25 Nov 2024
Joerg.Esdorn - 21 Nov 2024
Joerg.Esdorn - 21 Nov 2024
simoncurrin - 21 Nov 2024
Joerg.Esdorn - 21 Nov 2024
                         The Navionics satellite coverage is incomplete as you will find when...
simoncurrin - 22 Nov 2024
                             Thank you, Simon.
Joerg.Esdorn - 22 Nov 2024
Sandy.Herbert - 22 Nov 2024
Sandy.Herbert - 22 Nov 2024
Joerg.Esdorn - 23 Nov 2024
Sandy.Herbert - 22 Nov 2024
Joerg.Esdorn - 23 Nov 2024
Sandy.Herbert - 23 Nov 2024

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