By Janaki.Lennie - 18 Sep 2018
We are trying to put together a sensible list of engine spares for a Pacific crossing. The engine is a Yanmar 4JH4AE with about 800hrs.
The boat is not huge so we need to find the right balance between safety and excess.
Our assumption is that you can ship anything anywhere if you are willing to wait long enough so we want to focus on stuff that is a) more likely to fail and b) can be fixed at sea.
Has anyone made such a list or can make recommendations?
Thanks a lot!
Graham
SV Leela
Bristol 38.8
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By Dick - 19 Sep 2018
Hi Graham,
In addition to belts, filters, impellors, oil etc., the big-ticket items I carried for wandering far afield for my 4JH5e included (from memory) sending units and sensors (they are small), water pumps, raw and coolant, starter motor, fuel pump. My thinking on the latter, was these were items that could stop the engine rather than items where you could limp along till you could get help.
I keep my fuel clean through polishing and good filtering, so I did not include injectors or a high-pressure pump.
I also bought a set of gaskets and all the hoses with pre-bend and made sure I could cobble together from spares other hose sizes that exist.
I had upgraded the alternator when I installed the engine and have the original (came with engine) as a spare with the different size belt it would need. I also carry a spare external regulator.
That about covers it: one last thing. I would suggest swapping out pumps etc. under the watchful eye of a mechanic, putting the new ones on and the old but still good one in spares (with appropriate gaskets and fittings). That way there will be fewer surprises when the time comes to do it in some remote anchorage.
I will be interested in what others suggest,
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
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By bbalme - 20 Sep 2018
Dick's suggestions look spot on to me. I don't carry the same things, but will investigate now. I considered getting all the hoses, but ended up talking myself into not, after reviewing each one carefully. I do have various (not all) gaskets and I carry a spare injector. I have 4 fuel, 4 oil and about a dozen Racor filters. I also have 3 impellers. I carry enough oil for maybe 3 changes. I also have a small alternator - need to check if I have the right belt for it!
I think I'll be visiting a Yanmar dealer to pick up a few more items this winter - since we have hopes to sail to Patagonia next year...
Getting stuck - even in the nicest places - while waiting for parts is extremely frustrating - we just had to wait 3 weeks in the Azores for a package to arrive. Stuff what you can wherever you can!
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By Janaki.Lennie - 20 Sep 2018
Thanks Dick,
That is very useful. There might be more questions later but one quick one, what system are you using to polish your fuel?
bbalme,
I understand the frustration of waiting for parts but Leela is a pretty small boat and I have already SERIOUSLY blown my budget so I'm inclined to focus on safety-critical items.
I am really conflicted about the hoses as well. Yanmar recommend changing ALL of them every two years which is patently ridiculous and completely destroys their credibility as a source of information. Mine are six years old now but they all look and feel great. Have your heard of any/many hose failures on Yanmar engines? I think I HAVE to do it - $$$$.....
Graham
[quote=Dick]Hi Graham,
In addition to belts, filters, impellors, oil etc., the big-ticket items I carried for wandering far afield for my 4JH5e included (from memory) sending units and sensors (they are small), water pumps, raw and coolant, starter motor, fuel pump. My thinking on the latter, was these were items that could stop the engine rather than items where you could limp along till you could get help.
I keep my fuel clean through polishing and good filtering, so I did not include injectors or a high-pressure pump.
I also bought a set of gaskets and all the hoses with pre-bend and made sure I could cobble together from spares other hose sizes that exist.
I had upgraded the alternator when I installed the engine and have the original (came with engine) as a spare with the different size belt it would need. I also carry a spare external regulator.
That about covers it: one last thing. I would suggest swapping out pumps etc. under the watchful eye of a mechanic, putting the new ones on and the old but still good one in spares (with appropriate gaskets and fittings). That way there will be fewer surprises when the time comes to do it in some remote anchorage.
I will be interested in what others suggest,
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy[/quote]
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By bwallace - 20 Sep 2018
[quote=Bill Balme]Dick's suggestions look spot on to me. I don't carry the same things, but will investigate now. I considered getting all the hoses, but ended up talking myself into not, after reviewing each one carefully. I do have various (not all) gaskets and I carry a spare injector. I have 4 fuel, 4 oil and about a dozen Racor filters. I also have 3 impellers. I carry enough oil for maybe 3 changes. I also have a small alternator - need to check if I have the right belt for it!
I think I'll be visiting a Yanmar dealer to pick up a few more items this winter - since we have hopes to sail to Patagonia next year...
Getting stuck - even in the nicest places - while waiting for parts is extremely frustrating - we just had to wait 3 weeks in the Azores for a package to arrive. Stuff what you can wherever you can![/quote]
I agree with Dicks list, if buying staters and alternators there are many available which although not Yanmar make are half the price of the engine manufacturers. The only other suggestion I make is in regard to refrigeration. A black art, but I found we could buy 134a refrigerant in small canisters in some Countries Panama especially. Together with a recharge hose and connections. Once across the Pacific back to first world countries. There are many restrictions on buying refrigerant. You end up using extremely expensive fridge engineers who do not always understand how marine refrigeration systems work. We use the Frigaboat fridge and freezer. And with a bit of knowledge have been able to keep,all,our cooling going at a small price. We have only been able to buy gas once in Italy. Cold beer makes life more comfortable.
Brian. S/V Darramy
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By bwallace - 21 Sep 2018
To follow up on my refrigeration comments. Recharging a Frigoboat system does not need an engineer if you are reasonably competent.
I used the "Frigomatic R134A charging guidlines which can now be downloaded from the net [color=rgb(0, 102, 33)][font=arial, sans-serif]www.oyster-owners.com/wp.../Frigomatic%20R134a%20charging%20guidelines.pdf[/font][/color]
[color=rgb(0, 102, 33)][font=arial, sans-serif]I now see that there are now many articles available, but this particular one has held me in good stead for many years.[/font][/color]
[color=rgb(0, 102, 33)][font=arial, sans-serif]Note if buying refrigerant ensure it is not for car air con systems as there is too much oil in the gas and it will bugger up your compressor.[/font][/color]
[color=rgb(0, 102, 33)][font=arial, sans-serif]I actually carry a spare compressor on board which will work for the fridge and or the freezer. but I have not needed it, Probably because I have it on board![/font][/color]
[color=rgb(0, 102, 33)][font=arial, sans-serif]
[/font][/color]
[color=#006621]The other comment I will add is in regard to water makers, which are fairly essential for Pacific Cruising. (we spent 4 years in the Pacific) and if you have one, carry essential spares, and understand how it all works.[/color]
[color=#006621]Making a contact at the manufacturer is also good practice for advise.[/color]
[color=#006621]Sail Safe[/color]
[color=#006621]Brian[/color]
[color=#006621]S/V Darramy[/color]
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By Dick - 21 Sep 2018
Hi Janaki,
Yes, the Yanmar suggestion of a hose change every 2 years is ridiculous. In fact, although they make excellent engines, as a company, I find they are impossible to deal with: luckily, many of their distributors are reasonable and those are the only people I deal with.
As for hoses, I would not go anywhere without the prebends: they are just too difficult to jury rig. I would also not go anywhere without a large selection of junctions (butt connectors and some can serve multiple size hoses) in various sizes as well as a large selection of hose clamps: then if a hose fails, you can cut it at the failure and put on a butt connector and replace the hose when you can.
In many/most cruising grounds, I consider the engine mission critical: perhaps cruising the UK with their excellent RNLI, you can have an engine failure and not be in big trouble (and a few other coastlines), but I would ensure that for most cruising boats going farther afield, that they have the maintenance items already suggested and the parts necessary for the likely failures over the longer run.
Smaller boats and budgets do have a harder time at this, but spare parts should be looked at (as far as I am concerned) as like tools: you just need tools to do the work.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
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By Dick - 21 Sep 2018
Hi Brian,
I agree that buying pumps etc. not from the manufacturer can save a lot of money. But, I believe, you really have to know what you are doing. Often there are a number of variations on the same item. And one can find, as I did, that Westerbeke, when they send their raw water pump include a crucial elbow that does not come when you order the same pump from a generic supplier.
If purchasing in this manner, I even more strongly suggest swapping the equipment in a place where one has access to parts/help.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
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By Dick - 21 Sep 2018
Hi Brian,
Perhaps, this stream could be put in a refrigeration section?
Thought ahead of time should be given to working on your refrigeration system if you are going farther afield.
Refrigeration can be a bit of a mystery and people can certainly make a mess of it, but for wandering off the beaten path, some ability to deal with refrigeration is very handy.
I have only experience with Sea Frost equipment. SF makes things easy as they have Schrader type valves on the high and low pressure sides which allow quick and secure connections to be made by the valve assembly. This allows the refrigerant to be added, something I need to do every couple of years.
Most work involves adding refrigerant. I have used the automotive R134A cans for years. I was not aware that the oil levels were different. I will look into that as an issue.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
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By Dick - 22 Sep 2018
Hi all,
More on refrigerants; maybe more than you ever wanted to know.
At least in North America (the US and Canada) one can buy R134A in small cans at automotive supply stores. I have been doing so for 2 decades of cruising. Research indicates that you can get these small cans with oil added and with a leak sealant added. My info says these two types are not good for marine refrigeration systems: one wants the R134A with nothing added.
Perusal of the small print on my cans of refrigerant indicate that they do not say “nothing added”.t talk about the R134A. You must look for whether the can says “oil added” or “ leak sealant added” and avoid those cans.
I will try to look next time I am in an automotive supply store and see what I discover.
In the meantime, there might be someone out there who really knows…
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
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By Dick - 23 Sep 2018
Hi Janaki,
You asked about my fuel polishing system. Below is a description of what I do and why. Please feel free to come back with questions/comments.
Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
The following was written for a specific boat, but variations on the basics bellow make polishing fuel possible. If one is building new tanks, a fuel polishing pick-up going to the bottom low corner should be considered.
Fuel polishing serves at least 2 functions: good fuel to the engine and, secondarily, to keep accumulated yuck (technical term) from attacking the tank itself and shortening a tanks life. Many owner designed fuel polishing draws through the pickup tube which leaves the bottom of the tank untouched. On those Valiant 42s (like Alchemy) with saddle tanks it is possible to get to the very bottom through the connecting fitting between tanks. It is relatively easy to tap into this connection to draw fuel from below the pickup tube.
Fuel Polishing for Alchemy, V42-128, with saddle tanks
What I like about this system is that it covers both polishing the fuel and getting crud/water and any loose stuff from the tank bottoms below the pick-up tube. It does not, however, get inside the tank and scrape the sides etc., but the extra cleaning suggestion below does a bit of that.
Our saddle tanks are great in that they have a nipple on each tank at their lower end. The 2 tanks on each side are connected to each other from these low nipples with a valve in between. I broke into the hose near the lower nipple, attached a “T” and added a valve onto the T with a hose fitting.* I now have access to the fuel from the bottom of each tank. The lower tank is of course the more important as stuff migrates there. I did this both port & starboard. There are 2 tanks on each side of a 42 w/ saddle tanks (4 altogether) right next to each other fore and aft. (there are 2 per side to get them into the locker through the hatch: a nice touch as too many boats seal their tanks into the boat when they put the deck on).
I then mounted an old Racor filter (if possible, use the same filter as used on the boat) with hoses and a fuel pump on a board with a cigarette lighter attachment for power for the fuel pump. (Remember, you want to draw fuel through the filter, not push.) I attach the intake hose to the “T”ed off valve fitting and put the outlet into the deck fill. Open the T valve and you are pumping off the bottom of the tanks. Close off the upper tank with the Valiant built in valve and you are only drawing off the lower tank in the corner where crud/water accumulates.
We do an hour or two of polishing each side every 2-3 months or so during the season (or sooner if concerned I have gotten bad fuel). This runs about 17 gal. through the filter which I have been keeping at 10 micron. I take from the bottom and put into the top unless I am emptying a tank for the winter.** We can also pump from drums and guarantee that the fuel from the drums is clean before it gets into the tanks.
Extra tank cleaning
This can be accomplished by disassembly of the valves etc at the base of the tanks. Remove the lower nipple and there is a nice, not big, but nice size hole in the tank wall. Take a dowel with rag sections attached (electrical ties or just tied on) and insert and scrape. Continue as needed. Tedious but does get some yuck. And with a bit of a right angle insert you can get right in the corner.
*Something I recommend in V42s is a simple plywood partition protecting the valve/hose assembly at the base of the tanks from lines etc. that may be stored in the locker. These could get caught on the valves/hose and inadvertently pulled damaging these connections.
**The pump also acts to transfer fuel. I usually empty one tank each winter (into the other) to have Alchemy sit higher in the water. An empty tank will not collect water over a winter (documentation if wished).
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By bwallace - 24 Sep 2018
Hi again Dick,
I have just picked up your posts.
I am not sure about moving the refrigerant item as although it started out as engine spares, I considered it worth flagging up about the fridge stuff in spares for ocean cruising as once you have left across the ocean you are on your own and the refrigeration systems are not always thought about until to late.
In regard to refrigerant Gas. Any competent refrigeration engineer will tell you never to mix gases ie R12 and 134A, etc and also to ensure you do not use automotive refrigerant. You may well have got away with a little top up, but I am assured you are risking irreparable damage to your compressor.
In Fiji a while ago, I tried to buy more 134A, and found some Chinese canistors. they did not seem quite right to me as it said "substitute 134A refrigerant" I contacted the suppliers in China, they said it was not their gas, someone had cloned their label. So Whoever reads this beware to ensure you are using the correct gas. And buy from a reputable supplier.
Thats all from me on this, its cold beer time!
Brian
S/V Darramy
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By bwallace - 26 Sep 2018
Hi again all,
In regard to spares for Ocean Cruising.
Another item has come to mind in regard to domestic water taps and piping.
We replaced our mono bloc galley tap a few years ago, and as with many things. Tap design has altered and possibly production has moved to the far east.
The modern method of joining the water supply to the tap from the boats supply is to now use Flexi Connectors. These are certainly not up to the best quality for the marine enviroment.
I am talking about a flexihose with a stainless flexi covering. this stainless is only simple basic stainless. When it deteriorates, it exposes the rubber hose inside to become vulnerable.
We have had two fail over a number of years, so maybe one should check how taps are connected, and if Flexi Connectors, it may be handy to keep a couple of spare hoses in the kit. as we all know if something is going to break it is sods law you will be 1000 miles from the plumbers merchant.
I am considering fitting standard 15mm isolation valves (as in ones house) so a damaged hose can be isolated without loosing the whole pressurized water system.
Food for thought anyway.
Sail safe
Brian
S/V Darramy
edited by bbalme on 10/7/2018
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By Dick - 26 Sep 2018
Hi Brian and all,
I try to do a reasonable amount of due diligence on anything I write or suggest on the Forum, especially when harm may occur as could happen in this arena: that said, I would hope that others would check out their choices to their own personal satisfaction and only use the Forum’s information as one arena for data collection. Your challenge to my writing on refrigerants was so aggressive and so global that I re-visited my former due diligence with a local marine refrigeration guy (Canada) to check things out and also called and talked with the designer and manufacturer of major marine refrigeration units in the US before responding.
You are correct to make it clear to never mix gas types: that was never up for discussion, but it is always good to have reminders.
You write, “ensure you do not use automotive refrigerant. You ( meaning me) may well have got away with a little top up, but I am assured you are risking irreparable damage to your compressor”.
Firstly, I have been doing so on my two separate systems (freezer and frig) for over a decade, occasionally for more than just top-ups, and have experienced no damage or problems. All the additions have been from the small automotive canisters and twice it has been with local refrigeration people in attendance (Puerto Rico and in Ireland).
As for extending my former due diligence: the local refrigeration guy said it was perfectly fine to use automotive refrigerant canisters if no oil or leak sealant has been added. I also called the designer/manufacturer of marine refrigeration units who reiterated the same advice, and went on to give another option, if no other alternative, by suggesting that a canister that has had oil and/or leak sealant added, that the refrigerant can still be used. The procedure would be to let the canister sit and settle, tap it from the top and just take the vapor off the top. Do not shake or agitate or turn the canister on its side or over. The oil and sealant will stay on the bottom: the vapor off the top.
Now, I am quite clear that your advice may apply in other countries (this advice came from Fiji?) and that the R134A canisters have to come from a reputable source, but your blanket condemnation does not fit here in the US and Canada and some casual internet research seems to indicate that, in other countries, the condemnation does not fit as well.
I respond in such detail as I share your wish for those wandering widely to be prepared to take care of their refrigeration systems. R134A can be hard to find in many places and often entails licensing of the buyer. A blanket condemnation of all automotive refrigerants is to restrict one’s options in a manner my research and my experience indicates as unnecessary. I always have a couple of canisters on board.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
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By Janaki.Lennie - 28 Sep 2018
Thanks all for the good ideas and information.
I'm finding the interleaving of the refrigeration topic a bit confusing but such is forum life.... As far as my requirements are concerned refrigeration is not safety-critical so falls very low on my list....
Anyway, any more ideas on safety-critical spares will be gratefully received.
Graham
edited by Janaki.Lennie on 9/28/2018
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By simoncurrin - 28 Sep 2018
Janaki,
We carry all of the usual consumables as well as a spare alternator, starter motor, thermostat and a collection of relays. I hadn’t thought about sets of gaskets and hoses but that sounds like a good idea so thanks for the tip.
Simon
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By Dick - 28 Sep 2018
Hi all,
A good section might be titled "Offshore Spares Suggestions" where these orphaned posts might find a good home. I would guess an administrator would have to execute that idea if he/she approves.
As for hoses, Simon, I suggested the pre-bends to be the most important to have in spares, then a selection of the hose sizes that seem most prevalent. Finally, a collection of the butt connectors and hose clamps to cover the various sizes. One can always then cut a chafed hose and install a butt connector.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
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By bbalme - 1 Oct 2018
Ask, and you shall receive! https://forum.oceancruisingclub.org/forum193-offshore--remote-area-preparation.aspx
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By Steve.Houssart - 18 Feb 2020
On the refrigerator repairs subject and in Particular automotive fridge gases, be aware, some of these kits have gas with a sealant added, this will block your capillary tube and render your evaporator plate useless!
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