Well I found the forum and this is really an experiment to see if I can work out how to press the buttons but I have to post something so I thought I would ask about snubbers.

I had always thought that snubbers were to take the snatch out of your anchor cable and since mine is all chain cable should read chain. Since stretch was important and ultimately my boat is anchored by chain made off properly to a samson post and not riding on the windlass I tended to use light stretch nylon line until last november that is. At the end of last year I took a short trip from Lagos to Gib and found myself anchoring in some really foul weather. We had over 50knots for many hours with the storms extended over several days. I broke four snubbing lines during this time - all of them at the rolling hitch on the chain. The lines were 18mm. I use a rolling hitch because a chain hook just looks all wrong to me placing a point load on an individual link in the chain but I am very willing to listen.

Any comments?

Ta, Mark

Sounds as if the rolling hitch suffers the same point load problem that concerns you about using a hook! I dont have the benefit of a samson post to wrap the chain around, the nearest thing is the cleat on top of the windlass. I do use a hook snubber, hadnt thought about a point load problem with that, mainly because I inherited it with the boat. I also havent anchored in the extended bad conditions you describe, food for thought.

Mark,
I 've used a chain hook for about 10 years and never yet had a problem. The conditions you describe though do sound exceptional so I don 't really know how my system would hold up with sustained 50kn and, presumably, higher gusts?
Simon

Understand Simon but I was with a lady who lost a boat when she was anchored off a beach in Senegal. There was an exdceptional wave and the chain broke. She is convinced it was due to the chain hook she was using - you just have to look at the things to see how point loading is applied to the individual chain link. When I was down in Patagonia they routinely used a double chain hook where the load is taken on both sides with a keeper - it looked much gentler on the chain but I have never been able to find one here. Kind Regards, Mark

On Al Shaheen for our snubber we use a 25mm cable-laid line with a hard eye spliced into it and shackled to a large cast galvanised hook. The hook, of course, lies across a link in the 10 mm chain and the load is transferred to the end of the link above. I don 't see this as causing any more of a point load than normally exists through transfer of load from one link in the chain to the next.

We make off the snubber line to the samson post (100 mm alloy tube welded to deck and through to the keel!) We use a long piece of 38 mm ID plastic tube to protect the snubber line where it runs through the bow rollers. We lay to a cat 1 hurricane with this arrangement and 70 mm of chain with no problems.

The main thing is to have enough elasticity in the complete rode to minimise snatch loads. Our most scary time was anchored in shallow water (5 metres) in Managua lagoon with a 2 mile fetch to windward, a 30 knot wind causing a 1.5 m very short sea and a coral reef 300 m to leeward. Even with 50 m of chain veered the snatch loading was terrible and after the second night I lost my nerve and moved out of the lagoon! But the snubber and chain survived OK.

I 've been using 1/2" triple braid nylon for the snubber - seems to work fine - though I 'd really like to try Evans Starzinger 's approach with climbing line - just not sure what grade to get since I 'm not a mountaineer. I like the idea of lots of stretch!

I too used to use the chain hook - but found that on a non windy night, with a slack cable, the hook would fall out - then the wind would pipe up and we 'd start snatching! Inevitably it 's be raining and 2:00am when I had to reattach the hook! I now use a rolling hitch and so far have not had issues... :unsure:

Bill Balme

For the past 4 years I have followed Evan 's suggestion and use 9mm climbing rope, 12 meters long. We have anchored in near 40 kt winds with a lot of chop and I think it does very good job.

But you do need to find the right climbing rope (I was a climber for many years so I have a few old ropes.) The rope you see in a climbing store for sale by the meter is usually static line and not the full stretch type. The static line does not stretch as much and is used for climbing protection points. A climbing rope is usually only available 50 meter lengths. If you are near a good mountainnering shop you may put up a note offering to buy a used climbing rope. After some point climbers "retire" their ropes usually because there is a cut or weak point. These would be cheap and work fine.

I have also used a chain hook and like the ease of removing it if we need to put out more chain. Having enough slack in the chain above the hook seems to prevent the hook falling off, even in no wind drifting conditions.

Jim

We use a chain hook to a short length of 5/8 line, which then goes to a bridal which we pass through the fairleads to our sampson post. We find the bridal helps reduce swinging.
Used to use a basic chain hook, but as above found this would fall off when no strain. Past two years have had good success with the Mantus chain hook, easy to put on and stays attached.
Been in 30 kts in an open anchorage for 12 hours and worked well.

Surely, bridle? No weddings here!

The snubber should be set so that it is supporting the weight of the chain with the length of chain between the hook and the boat hanging in a loop so that the snubber is always taking all the strain imposed by the chain. When set up like this no chain hook should fall off since it is always under some strain even in conditions of no wind.

Good day all,
Firstly, I would want the managers to consider moving this topic to the ground tackle/anchoring area where I believe it would more likely get the notice it deserves.
Next: I do not see the point loading of a chain hook as being an issue.
There are a number of reasons to argue against the use a chain hook, but the most compelling to my mind is that: You are awakened at 00darkThirty and the wind is up, seas rising, and it is starting to drizzle and you want to veer more chain. With most chain hooks, the chain needs to be taken up (just when you want more chain) often needing the engine to do so. With a rolling hitch, you just let the snubber go out with the chain and bend on another (which for me would be a handy dock line). This is a few seconds operation rather than a bit of a fire drill. Retrieval is done when you up anchor. With most chain hooks (unless they are moused and life is too short to do this every time I anchor) you are unable to just cast them off as you will lose them.
As to the rolling hitch breaking that started this thread. I suggest a modified rolling hitch as shown by a picture in this article I wrote (http://www.stevedmarineconsulting.com/ezine/index.php?p=22). It has an extra turn at each end as shown in the picture. Another OCC member, John Harries on Morgan’s Cloud, and a rising guru in the recreational offshore sailing world (see Attainable Adventures Cruising web site) recommends two regular rolling hitches in a row to serve the same function. Regardless, the knot (all knots actually) benefits from a couple of seconds of being tightened by hand.
The article (whose url is above) spells out in more detail my reservations about chain hooks (also swivels) and talks about the use/design of snubbers.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy, Hindeloopen, The Netherlands