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Sandy.Herbert
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Group: Forum Members
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I want to replace my existing navigation hardware and I am looking for advice on the state of the art.
My present system is 12 years old. It consists of two Garmin GPSmap 4008s, one at the chart table and one on the binnacle. They are networked and both can be used to display maps, follow routes, display AIS targets, control and display the radar and all the other stuff they do like display tides, show wind graphs etc. etc.
I use a PC and OpenCPN or Homeport to do routing and transfer the routes using SD cards ( no WiFi on these old systems). Up till now I have used a sat phone to connect to the Internet and to download grib files using Sailmail or similar. I use the PC and OpenCPN to display the grib files. I have a Vesper AIS which is also my WiFi hub.
This system does everything I want and has served me well.
However the GPSmaps are getting old and are classed as legacy devices by Garmin. I managed to update the OS recently which has prolonged their lives but I can see the end coming. The plotters don't support the most recent Garmin maps and can't read any other format. Also Garmin maps are fantastically expensive.
I am a bit out of the cruising network and I would like to know what people are installing now for long distance offshore cruising. Ideally I would like a system not based on a dedicated plotter. However, I do want a reliable system and if this means a brand plotter so be it. I would also like to know what people are installing for satellite communications and weather. Answers from real experience please rather than speculation.
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Simon Currin
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Group: Administrators
Posts: 1K,
Visits: 86
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Sandy, I’m afraid to say I say we all weather on an iPhone (courtesy of PredictWind) which works very well for us but I know traditionalists would not approve. Connections is via to Starlink with Iridium as a backup - though we may dispense with the latter next season given it’s cost. Simon +x+xSandy, We did a similar upgrade last year and can share the mistake we made! We decided to save a few pennies by opting for two touchscreen Raymarine MFD’s (Axiom). The one at the nav station is fine but the one at the helm goes crazy when it is raining as the rain drops trigger MoB’s and all sorts of nonsense. This is easily overcome by switching off the touchscreen but we then have no way of interacting with the device when the screen is wet. We have had to buy networked remote controls which was rather more expensive than buying an MFD with in-built manual knobs and buttons. With the above caveat the new network is a vast improvement on what we had before. As for satellite / weather the combination of PredictWind and Starlink is very powerful and substantially cheaper than Iridium or installing SSB. We found PredictWind’s ‘over the horizon AIS’ a great tool for various niche reasons I won’t bore you with. Simon +xI want to replace my existing navigation hardware and I am looking for advice on the state of the art. My present system is 12 years old. It consists of two Garmin GPSmap 4008s, one at the chart table and one on the binnacle. They are networked and both can be used to display maps, follow routes, display AIS targets, control and display the radar and all the other stuff they do like display tides, show wind graphs etc. etc. I use a PC and OpenCPN or Homeport to do routing and transfer the routes using SD cards ( no WiFi on these old systems). Up till now I have used a sat phone to connect to the Internet and to download grib files using Sailmail or similar. I use the PC and OpenCPN to display the grib files. I have a Vesper AIS which is also my WiFi hub. This system does everything I want and has served me well. However the GPSmaps are getting old and are classed as legacy devices by Garmin. I managed to update the OS recently which has prolonged their lives but I can see the end coming. The plotters don't support the most recent Garmin maps and can't read any other format. Also Garmin maps are fantastically expensive. I am a bit out of the cruising network and I would like to know what people are installing now for long distance offshore cruising. Ideally I would like a system not based on a dedicated plotter. However, I do want a reliable system and if this means a brand plotter so be it. I would also like to know what people are installing for satellite communications and weather. Answers from real experience please rather than speculation. Thanks for this reply. What do you do for routing and weather? Do you do it directly on the plotters?
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Dick
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 970,
Visits: 1.3K
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+xSandy, I’m afraid to say I say we all weather on an iPhone (courtesy of PredictWind) which works very well for us but I know traditionalists would not approve. Connections is via to Starlink with Iridium as a backup - though we may dispense with the latter next season given it’s cost. Simon +x+xSandy, We did a similar upgrade last year and can share the mistake we made! We decided to save a few pennies by opting for two touchscreen Raymarine MFD’s (Axiom). The one at the nav station is fine but the one at the helm goes crazy when it is raining as the rain drops trigger MoB’s and all sorts of nonsense. This is easily overcome by switching off the touchscreen but we then have no way of interacting with the device when the screen is wet. We have had to buy networked remote controls which was rather more expensive than buying an MFD with in-built manual knobs and buttons. With the above caveat the new network is a vast improvement on what we had before. As for satellite / weather the combination of PredictWind and Starlink is very powerful and substantially cheaper than Iridium or installing SSB. We found PredictWind’s ‘over the horizon AIS’ a great tool for various niche reasons I won’t bore you with. Simon +xI want to replace my existing navigation hardware and I am looking for advice on the state of the art. My present system is 12 years old. It consists of two Garmin GPSmap 4008s, one at the chart table and one on the binnacle. They are networked and both can be used to display maps, follow routes, display AIS targets, control and display the radar and all the other stuff they do like display tides, show wind graphs etc. etc. I use a PC and OpenCPN or Homeport to do routing and transfer the routes using SD cards ( no WiFi on these old systems). Up till now I have used a sat phone to connect to the Internet and to download grib files using Sailmail or similar. I use the PC and OpenCPN to display the grib files. I have a Vesper AIS which is also my WiFi hub. This system does everything I want and has served me well. However the GPSmaps are getting old and are classed as legacy devices by Garmin. I managed to update the OS recently which has prolonged their lives but I can see the end coming. The plotters don't support the most recent Garmin maps and can't read any other format. Also Garmin maps are fantastically expensive. I am a bit out of the cruising network and I would like to know what people are installing now for long distance offshore cruising. Ideally I would like a system not based on a dedicated plotter. However, I do want a reliable system and if this means a brand plotter so be it. I would also like to know what people are installing for satellite communications and weather. Answers from real experience please rather than speculation. Thanks for this reply. What do you do for routing and weather? Do you do it directly on the plotters? Hi Sandy, I have used a paid router only a few times, but always generated my own routing out 3 days using existing weather forecasts including wind/wave. I then take the paid for route and compare. If similar, I am happy: any discrepancies, I ask the router why. For example, I used a router from Iceland to Greenland. He had me going farther S than I had worked out. He said he had kept me S as there was a low lurking in Canada and coming my way 3-5 days out. It was forecast to stay N of rhumb line and not be a bother, but if it tracked a more southerly route, it could bring significant headwinds and some ugly weather. So, he had me going S and added a few miles but meant I might have greater options if the low tracked S. I have never used a computer-generated route program, but have heard they exist. I would do the same as above and try to figure out why if significant discrepancies occur. One of the benefits of generating your own route is that you have much greater situational awareness if/when weather does not unfold as forecast. This means you are already up-to-speed on the whole picture and able to respond without going back to the drawing-board. It helps greatly write down a day-by-day anticipation of the passage. For example: day three, noon, winds SSE at 15kn T, bar xyz inches, cloudy, wind expected to veer, rain possible. You do this pretty much when doing route planning, but written down you notice things like a low approaching faster than anticipated by the bar pressure dropping earlier or the wind is doing something which needs explaining. As the passage proceeds, I am always revising the route daily out at least 3 days as the forecast changes. Come back with questions. My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
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Sandy.Herbert
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 17,
Visits: 1
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+x+xSandy, I’m afraid to say I say we all weather on an iPhone (courtesy of PredictWind) which works very well for us but I know traditionalists would not approve. Connections is via to Starlink with Iridium as a backup - though we may dispense with the latter next season given it’s cost. Simon +x+xSandy, We did a similar upgrade last year and can share the mistake we made! We decided to save a few pennies by opting for two touchscreen Raymarine MFD’s (Axiom). The one at the nav station is fine but the one at the helm goes crazy when it is raining as the rain drops trigger MoB’s and all sorts of nonsense. This is easily overcome by switching off the touchscreen but we then have no way of interacting with the device when the screen is wet. We have had to buy networked remote controls which was rather more expensive than buying an MFD with in-built manual knobs and buttons. With the above caveat the new network is a vast improvement on what we had before. As for satellite / weather the combination of PredictWind and Starlink is very powerful and substantially cheaper than Iridium or installing SSB. We found PredictWind’s ‘over the horizon AIS’ a great tool for various niche reasons I won’t bore you with. Simon +xI want to replace my existing navigation hardware and I am looking for advice on the state of the art. My present system is 12 years old. It consists of two Garmin GPSmap 4008s, one at the chart table and one on the binnacle. They are networked and both can be used to display maps, follow routes, display AIS targets, control and display the radar and all the other stuff they do like display tides, show wind graphs etc. etc. I use a PC and OpenCPN or Homeport to do routing and transfer the routes using SD cards ( no WiFi on these old systems). Up till now I have used a sat phone to connect to the Internet and to download grib files using Sailmail or similar. I use the PC and OpenCPN to display the grib files. I have a Vesper AIS which is also my WiFi hub. This system does everything I want and has served me well. However the GPSmaps are getting old and are classed as legacy devices by Garmin. I managed to update the OS recently which has prolonged their lives but I can see the end coming. The plotters don't support the most recent Garmin maps and can't read any other format. Also Garmin maps are fantastically expensive. I am a bit out of the cruising network and I would like to know what people are installing now for long distance offshore cruising. Ideally I would like a system not based on a dedicated plotter. However, I do want a reliable system and if this means a brand plotter so be it. I would also like to know what people are installing for satellite communications and weather. Answers from real experience please rather than speculation. Thanks for this reply. What do you do for routing and weather? Do you do it directly on the plotters? Hi Sandy, I have used a paid router only a few times, but always generated my own routing out 3 days using existing weather forecasts including wind/wave. I then take the paid for route and compare. If similar, I am happy: any discrepancies, I ask the router why. For example, I used a router from Iceland to Greenland. He had me going farther S than I had worked out. He said he had kept me S as there was a low lurking in Canada and coming my way 3-5 days out. It was forecast to stay N of rhumb line and not be a bother, but if it tracked a more southerly route, it could bring significant headwinds and some ugly weather. So, he had me going S and added a few miles but meant I might have greater options if the low tracked S. I have never used a computer-generated route program, but have heard they exist. I would do the same as above and try to figure out why if significant discrepancies occur. One of the benefits of generating your own route is that you have much greater situational awareness if/when weather does not unfold as forecast. This means you are already up-to-speed on the whole picture and able to respond without going back to the drawing-board. It helps greatly write down a day-by-day anticipation of the passage. For example: day three, noon, winds SSE at 15kn T, bar xyz inches, cloudy, wind expected to veer, rain possible. You do this pretty much when doing route planning, but written down you notice things like a low approaching faster than anticipated by the bar pressure dropping earlier or the wind is doing something which needs explaining. As the passage proceeds, I am always revising the route daily out at least 3 days as the forecast changes. Come back with questions. My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy The only time I have used someone to help me with timing and weather was for the passage between Madagascar and Richards Bay in South Africa. Everyone including me seemed to be terrified of the South African coast and it was a great comfort to have the advice of someone who knew the area well. Otherwise for offshore stuff I downloaded grib files using Sailmail and overlaid them on the chart and planned my route accordingly. I guess this is already getting to be old technology though.
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Sandy.Herbert
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 17,
Visits: 1
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+xSandy, I’m afraid to say I say we all weather on an iPhone (courtesy of PredictWind) which works very well for us but I know traditionalists would not approve. Connections is via to Starlink with Iridium as a backup - though we may dispense with the latter next season given it’s cost. Simon +x+xSandy, We did a similar upgrade last year and can share the mistake we made! We decided to save a few pennies by opting for two touchscreen Raymarine MFD’s (Axiom). The one at the nav station is fine but the one at the helm goes crazy when it is raining as the rain drops trigger MoB’s and all sorts of nonsense. This is easily overcome by switching off the touchscreen but we then have no way of interacting with the device when the screen is wet. We have had to buy networked remote controls which was rather more expensive than buying an MFD with in-built manual knobs and buttons. With the above caveat the new network is a vast improvement on what we had before. As for satellite / weather the combination of PredictWind and Starlink is very powerful and substantially cheaper than Iridium or installing SSB. We found PredictWind’s ‘over the horizon AIS’ a great tool for various niche reasons I won’t bore you with. Simon +xI want to replace my existing navigation hardware and I am looking for advice on the state of the art. My present system is 12 years old. It consists of two Garmin GPSmap 4008s, one at the chart table and one on the binnacle. They are networked and both can be used to display maps, follow routes, display AIS targets, control and display the radar and all the other stuff they do like display tides, show wind graphs etc. etc. I use a PC and OpenCPN or Homeport to do routing and transfer the routes using SD cards ( no WiFi on these old systems). Up till now I have used a sat phone to connect to the Internet and to download grib files using Sailmail or similar. I use the PC and OpenCPN to display the grib files. I have a Vesper AIS which is also my WiFi hub. This system does everything I want and has served me well. However the GPSmaps are getting old and are classed as legacy devices by Garmin. I managed to update the OS recently which has prolonged their lives but I can see the end coming. The plotters don't support the most recent Garmin maps and can't read any other format. Also Garmin maps are fantastically expensive. I am a bit out of the cruising network and I would like to know what people are installing now for long distance offshore cruising. Ideally I would like a system not based on a dedicated plotter. However, I do want a reliable system and if this means a brand plotter so be it. I would also like to know what people are installing for satellite communications and weather. Answers from real experience please rather than speculation. Thanks for this reply. What do you do for routing and weather? Do you do it directly on the plotters? I guess I am still thinking in terms of grib files. I find Windy and such OK for short passages but for offshore sailing I like to be able to plot the grib files on the chart and plan my route accordingly.
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Simon Currin
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Group: Administrators
Posts: 1K,
Visits: 86
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But that’s exactly what PredictWind does. It’s a multiday routing tool comparing projections basted on all the GRIB models. Windy also has a similar routing tool.
Simon
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Sandy.Herbert
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 17,
Visits: 1
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+xBut that’s exactly what PredictWind does. It’s a multiday routing tool comparing projections basted on all the GRIB models. Windy also has a similar routing tool.Simon But on an iphone? How does that work? I tried to use the PC version of Windy to do routing on my last outing in the Med this spring. I was disgusted to find that you needed to pay for it.
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Sandy.Herbert
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 17,
Visits: 1
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+xBut that’s exactly what PredictWind does. It’s a multiday routing tool comparing projections basted on all the GRIB models. Windy also has a similar routing tool.Simon When I tried to use Windy for route planning the way I understood it worked is that you had to import a route into Windy in some neutral format (that was the bit it wouldn't let me do for free I think), it would then do the routing and you had to export the route in neutral format and read it back into your chart plotter. For me with my antiquated system it would have involved many intermediate steps as well. Have you used this in anger?
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Simon Currin
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Group: Administrators
Posts: 1K,
Visits: 86
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Sandy,
No you do not import the Route into Windy. Use the Windy Hub App and it functions more like PredictWind.
I have just recorded a webinar with PredictWind and will post the recording here tomorrow. It was more of a Q&A webinar.
Simon
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Sandy.Herbert
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 17,
Visits: 1
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+xSandy,No you do not import the Route into Windy. Use the Windy Hub App and it functions more like PredictWind.I have just recorded a webinar with PredictWind and will post the recording here tomorrow. It was more of a Q&A webinar.Simon Thanks. I saw the webinar on the events list but I was too late to participate
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Sandy.Herbert
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 17,
Visits: 1
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+x+xSandy,No you do not import the Route into Windy. Use the Windy Hub App and it functions more like PredictWind.I have just recorded a webinar with PredictWind and will post the recording here tomorrow. It was more of a Q&A webinar.Simon Thanks. I saw the webinar on the events list but I was too late to participate I just listened to the webinar. Thanks for that. Very good. Predictwind sounds like a good system but the voices of cruisers was music to my ears The Kiwis do some impressive stuff. I have a Vesper AIS. The help was brilliant though I haven't really needed much since I installed it. Sadly Vesper belongs to Garmin now. I was surprised to hear people were still using Iridium Gos I have an Iridium phone I used during my circumnavigation between 2012 and 2017. Very slow and expensive. Some people were getting Gos. I was interested but something happened around 2013, 2014. Iridium stopped supporting it or maybe you couldn't get the software for Windows but whatever, suppliers stopped selling them and I never got one. I thought they had died long ago.
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Simon Currin
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Group: Administrators
Posts: 1K,
Visits: 86
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Sandy, From memory the IridiumGo only got launched in 2015 and overcame the expensive data issue by bringing with it an unlimited data subscription. It is still used but, as discussed in the PredictWind Webinar, it has been superseded by Starlink. We have retained ours as a tracking device and as an emergency Liferaft communicator but we only subscribe to the cheapest Iridium subscription to use it. Iridium brought out the successor to the IridiumGo a year ago called the Iridium Exec with a data speed of 20x the IridiumGo. Obviously, this is still much slower than Starlink and the hardware cost is approx 3x Starlink. It will be great when we have a device and network to compete with Starlink. Simon +x+x+xSandy,No you do not import the Route into Windy. Use the Windy Hub App and it functions more like PredictWind.I have just recorded a webinar with PredictWind and will post the recording here tomorrow. It was more of a Q&A webinar.Simon Thanks. I saw the webinar on the events list but I was too late to participate I just listened to the webinar. Thanks for that. Very good. Predictwind sounds like a good system but the voices of cruisers was music to my ears The Kiwis do some impressive stuff. I have a Vesper AIS. The help was brilliant though I haven't really needed much since I installed it. Sadly Vesper belongs to Garmin now. I was surprised to hear people were still using Iridium Gos I have an Iridium phone I used during my circumnavigation between 2012 and 2017. Very slow and expensive. Some people were getting Gos. I was interested but something happened around 2013, 2014. Iridium stopped supporting it or maybe you couldn't get the software for Windows but whatever, suppliers stopped selling them and I never got one. I thought they had died long ago.
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Sandy.Herbert
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 17,
Visits: 1
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+xSandy, From memory the IridiumGo only got launched in 2015 and overcame the expensive data issue by bringing with it an unlimited data subscription. It is still used but, as discussed in the PredictWind Webinar, it has been superseded by Starlink. We have retained ours as a tracking device and as an emergency Liferaft communicator but we only subscribe to the cheapest Iridium subscription to use it. Iridium brought out the successor to the IridiumGo a year ago called the Iridium Exec with a data speed of 20x the IridiumGo. Obviously, this is still much slower than Starlink and the hardware cost is approx 3x Starlink. It will be great when we have a device and network to compete with Starlink. Simon +x+x+xSandy,No you do not import the Route into Windy. Use the Windy Hub App and it functions more like PredictWind.I have just recorded a webinar with PredictWind and will post the recording here tomorrow. It was more of a Q&A webinar.Simon Thanks. I saw the webinar on the events list but I was too late to participate I just listened to the webinar. Thanks for that. Very good. Predictwind sounds like a good system but the voices of cruisers was music to my ears The Kiwis do some impressive stuff. I have a Vesper AIS. The help was brilliant though I haven't really needed much since I installed it. Sadly Vesper belongs to Garmin now. I was surprised to hear people were still using Iridium Gos I have an Iridium phone I used during my circumnavigation between 2012 and 2017. Very slow and expensive. Some people were getting Gos. I was interested but something happened around 2013, 2014. Iridium stopped supporting it or maybe you couldn't get the software for Windows but whatever, suppliers stopped selling them and I never got one. I thought they had died long ago. I must have got my wires crossed with the GO. Do you have enough experience with Starlink to comment on the coverage?
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Simon Currin
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Group: Administrators
Posts: 1K,
Visits: 86
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Sandy, I’ve been using Starlink since October’ ‘22 and it has worked flawlessly and continuously between Annapolis and Tahiti. It also worked well for OCC boats in the North West Passage this summer although I think it struggles beyond 80 degrees north. Simon +x+xSandy, From memory the IridiumGo only got launched in 2015 and overcame the expensive data issue by bringing with it an unlimited data subscription. It is still used but, as discussed in the PredictWind Webinar, it has been superseded by Starlink. We have retained ours as a tracking device and as an emergency Liferaft communicator but we only subscribe to the cheapest Iridium subscription to use it. Iridium brought out the successor to the IridiumGo a year ago called the Iridium Exec with a data speed of 20x the IridiumGo. Obviously, this is still much slower than Starlink and the hardware cost is approx 3x Starlink. It will be great when we have a device and network to compete with Starlink. Simon +x+x+xSandy,No you do not import the Route into Windy. Use the Windy Hub App and it functions more like PredictWind.I have just recorded a webinar with PredictWind and will post the recording here tomorrow. It was more of a Q&A webinar.Simon Thanks. I saw the webinar on the events list but I was too late to participate I just listened to the webinar. Thanks for that. Very good. Predictwind sounds like a good system but the voices of cruisers was music to my ears The Kiwis do some impressive stuff. I have a Vesper AIS. The help was brilliant though I haven't really needed much since I installed it. Sadly Vesper belongs to Garmin now. I was surprised to hear people were still using Iridium Gos I have an Iridium phone I used during my circumnavigation between 2012 and 2017. Very slow and expensive. Some people were getting Gos. I was interested but something happened around 2013, 2014. Iridium stopped supporting it or maybe you couldn't get the software for Windows but whatever, suppliers stopped selling them and I never got one. I thought they had died long ago. I must have got my wires crossed with the GO. Do you have enough experience with Starlink to comment on the coverage?
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Sandy.Herbert
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 17,
Visits: 1
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+xSandy, I’ve been using Starlink since October’ ‘22 and it has worked flawlessly and continuously between Annapolis and Tahiti. It also worked well for OCC boats in the North West Passage this summer although I think it struggles beyond 80 degrees north. Simon +x+xSandy, From memory the IridiumGo only got launched in 2015 and overcame the expensive data issue by bringing with it an unlimited data subscription. It is still used but, as discussed in the PredictWind Webinar, it has been superseded by Starlink. We have retained ours as a tracking device and as an emergency Liferaft communicator but we only subscribe to the cheapest Iridium subscription to use it. Iridium brought out the successor to the IridiumGo a year ago called the Iridium Exec with a data speed of 20x the IridiumGo. Obviously, this is still much slower than Starlink and the hardware cost is approx 3x Starlink. It will be great when we have a device and network to compete with Starlink. Simon +x+x+xSandy,No you do not import the Route into Windy. Use the Windy Hub App and it functions more like PredictWind.I have just recorded a webinar with PredictWind and will post the recording here tomorrow. It was more of a Q&A webinar.Simon Thanks. I saw the webinar on the events list but I was too late to participate I just listened to the webinar. Thanks for that. Very good. Predictwind sounds like a good system but the voices of cruisers was music to my ears The Kiwis do some impressive stuff. I have a Vesper AIS. The help was brilliant though I haven't really needed much since I installed it. Sadly Vesper belongs to Garmin now. I was surprised to hear people were still using Iridium Gos I have an Iridium phone I used during my circumnavigation between 2012 and 2017. Very slow and expensive. Some people were getting Gos. I was interested but something happened around 2013, 2014. Iridium stopped supporting it or maybe you couldn't get the software for Windows but whatever, suppliers stopped selling them and I never got one. I thought they had died long ago. I must have got my wires crossed with the GO. Do you have enough experience with Starlink to comment on the coverage? Thanks for the information
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