chain dimensions specification


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owenp
owenp
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Hi simon, dont worry not getting rid of it just yet .

Just its a minefield of opinions out there ! t
he spade does get good recommendations though and apparently doesnt do to badly in weed .
main thing about the fishermans is the hassle in getting it on deck and deploying . i have done a fair few miles to date and have yet had necessity to use one. It could be greenland though....
any thoughts on the vulcan which i think is the rocna upgrade?
thanks
Peter
Simon Currin
Simon Currin
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Peter the post below is from Dick who is struggling to access the Forum. By the way my mention of a fishermans was tongue in cheek. I made a dinghy mooring out of mine some years ago. Great for that!
Simon

Hi Peter,

Yes, the CQR should be relegated to a hood ornament. I have been using Spades for 7-8 years now and they is a huge leap in safety over CQRs and Bruces (I used to own both and used the CQR for decades) and Deltas and others from that generation.

I believe that after design, weight is most telling in getting through weeds and kelp. A fisherman may get through the kelp or hook on a rock, but I want an anchor that will, when it gets through, dig in and hold the way a Spade does. Further, the Spade with its weight concentrated in the tip (and my larger than normal size), has been extremely effective at penetrating weed and kelp.

A couple of seasons ago I got rid of my fishermans (an 80 pound Luke) for the reasons you stated as well as I had a better solution. I put my 66 pound Spade in spares where the Luke used to be (I think it is a better all-around anchor and always would choose it over a Fishermans and, like the Luke, it comes apart so handling is far easier) and upgraded to a 35 kg/77 pound Spade. This is on a 40 foot/16 ton boat. This has worked out great. Much more holding power (I think it goes up geometrically) for only 11 pounds more weight. (And actually my “spare” is now 14 pounds lighter and I think more versatile and effective.)

All the new generation anchors are far superior. Rocnas are great but have a reputation of (quite rarely but occasionally) failing to re-set after a wind shift (see the Rocna stream on the OCC forum). I do not have experience with Manson or Vulcan. The best discussion of anchors and anchoring (along with a wealth of other sailing data, especially high latitude sailing) by very experienced sailors is on the Attainable Adventure Cruising web site. It will cost ~$20, but I suspect you will feel it was worth every penny.

My best,

Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
Alex Blackwell
Alex Blackwell
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:)
Alex Blackwell
Alex Blackwell
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i just spent the past hour writing a lengthy reply only to have an error message - probably same as Dick.

sorry cannot rewrite - no time
Ginger
Ginger
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Hi Alex,
How very infuriating. I am sorry to miss your thoughts as they always contribute.
In response to this problem, I have started writing off line all my comments and then C&P 'ing them into the forum for posting and in that way ensuring I do not lose a lot of work.
My best, Dick
Alex Blackwell
Alex Blackwell
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even cutting and pasting does not work

perhaps my reply is too long?
Alex Blackwell
Alex Blackwell
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Hi Peter – am taking another stab at a reply, using Dick’s suggestion of drafting offline. That failed, so I will post it in sections – apologies for this.

First of all I do concur with all of Dick 's & Simon 's comments & suggestions.

As to the Vulcan (we have one), as I mentioned when we spoke, it is indeed an excellent anchor. Like all scoop type anchors it sets and holds very well. It was designed by Peter Smith for boats that cannot handle a roll bar – powerboats for the most part. It did fit ok on our bow roller, but our boat is old and quite pointy. It would not work on boats with plumb bows, unless they have bow rollers.

As to your comment re cost, please consider what you think your life is worth, plus what your boat and its contents are worth. Then consider what might be willing to spend on insuring these. If your anchor fails in a storm, there is a pretty good chance you will die – particularly when sailing hi high latitudes.
Alex Blackwell
Alex Blackwell
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With regards to your anchoring tackle, following are my thoughts:

Starting at the bottom:
1.   Lose the CQR (period). Even if it has not done so already, it will drag, break out and not reset, or just not set in the first place.
2.   Lose the Fisherman / Luke. You will never use it. It is unnecessary weight. It looks great on the lawn.
3.   With a view to my comment re cost:
a.   Buy a modern scoop type anchor as your primary. Yes, go up one size on the manufacturer’s recommendation. There are many options: Spade, Ultra, Rocna, Vulcan, Supreme, Mantus, and many more.
i.   Do not get a plough (ploughs are meant to plough (=plow))
ii.   Do not get a claw (set fast but hold poorly)
b.   Buy a dismantelable scoop type anchor as a secondary. Spade and Mantus are options (we have both). However, ensure that the bolts are drilled and pinned. Do not rely on nyloc nuts.
c.   Buy a lightweight (Aluminium) Fortress anchor (we have) as your tertiary. This holds as well as a scoop in softer bottoms. It is also the only anchor sized to your boat that you can easily deploy from your dinghy – as a stern anchor or second bower.
4.   When anchoring in potentially foul ground (like rocks, or near mooring fields) always deploy a trip line. If your anchor snags something, you will be glad you did.
a.   You can also consider adding an Anchor-Rescue or Anchor-Witch to your tackle. (we have both and have been using the Anchor-Rescue all this past season) These devices enable you to lower a messenger line down your rode and then lift the anchor by its crown without disconnecting the rode from the shank.
Alex Blackwell
Alex Blackwell
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The middle bit (the rode) has been covered quite adequately, and I do agree with the above comments. Here are some further suggestions:
1.   Have one further full length rode ready to deploy. This can be rope with a length of chain.
a.   Rope should ne nylon – not an old halyard or sheet. These do not stretch and do not have any energy absorption. Also do not use polypropylene, although cheap and stretchy, it degrades with UV light.
2.   Have a further full length rode as a backup. If you have a Fortress, this need not have a length of chain, though having the chain is a good idea.
3.   Consider having one more rode stored aft for stern anchoring or tying off shore, aka med mooring.
At the top end, make sure you have a long snubber. In a blow, your chain rode will go bar taut. Discussions on catenary alleviating this are nonsense in a strong blow. You must add elasticity to your rode to prevent gear failure. You can attach the snubber to the rode with either a chain hook, or with a rolling hitch.

Apologies Dick, but your one recommendation to subscribe to AAC I cannot concur with. You can get more and better information right here on the forum. There are also websites that have equally good information at no charge.
Dick
Dick
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likewise splitting up a comment
Hi Alex,
Thanks for your contributions to the discussion and I agree with your recommendations about a lightweight kedge: ours is a Fortress.
It is with some curiosity that I note that this is the second time that you have gone after the Attainable Adventure Cruising web site on the pages of the OCC Forum: both times to me unwarranted and un-necessary. The site is a valuable asset to the cruising community, especially for offshore cruisers and those who go to challenging parts of the oceans. It is run by an OCC member who speaks highly of the OCC on his site.
GO

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