i just spent the past hour writing a lengthy reply only to have an error message - probably same as Dick.

sorry cannot rewrite - no time

:)

Peter the post below is from Dick who is struggling to access the Forum. By the way my mention of a fishermans was tongue in cheek. I made a dinghy mooring out of mine some years ago. Great for that!
Simon

Hi Peter,

Yes, the CQR should be relegated to a hood ornament. I have been using Spades for 7-8 years now and they is a huge leap in safety over CQRs and Bruces (I used to own both and used the CQR for decades) and Deltas and others from that generation.

I believe that after design, weight is most telling in getting through weeds and kelp. A fisherman may get through the kelp or hook on a rock, but I want an anchor that will, when it gets through, dig in and hold the way a Spade does. Further, the Spade with its weight concentrated in the tip (and my larger than normal size), has been extremely effective at penetrating weed and kelp.

A couple of seasons ago I got rid of my fishermans (an 80 pound Luke) for the reasons you stated as well as I had a better solution. I put my 66 pound Spade in spares where the Luke used to be (I think it is a better all-around anchor and always would choose it over a Fishermans and, like the Luke, it comes apart so handling is far easier) and upgraded to a 35 kg/77 pound Spade. This is on a 40 foot/16 ton boat. This has worked out great. Much more holding power (I think it goes up geometrically) for only 11 pounds more weight. (And actually my “spare” is now 14 pounds lighter and I think more versatile and effective.)

All the new generation anchors are far superior. Rocnas are great but have a reputation of (quite rarely but occasionally) failing to re-set after a wind shift (see the Rocna stream on the OCC forum). I do not have experience with Manson or Vulcan. The best discussion of anchors and anchoring (along with a wealth of other sailing data, especially high latitude sailing) by very experienced sailors is on the Attainable Adventure Cruising web site. It will cost ~$20, but I suspect you will feel it was worth every penny.

My best,

Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

Hi simon, dont worry not getting rid of it just yet .

Just its a minefield of opinions out there ! t
he spade does get good recommendations though and apparently doesnt do to badly in weed .
main thing about the fishermans is the hassle in getting it on deck and deploying . i have done a fair few miles to date and have yet had necessity to use one. It could be greenland though....
any thoughts on the vulcan which i think is the rocna upgrade?
thanks
Peter

Peter,
Where you are heading (Greenland) there 's loads of rock and kelp so all anchors will have limitations. We use a 45kg Manson which is similar to the ubiquitous Rocna. Might be worth keeping you Fisherman 's to cope with the kelp?
Simon

Hi dick

thanks for your responses. i think i am getting around to the electric idea. The last person i talked to about all this told me to throw away the cqr, or use it as a garden ornament along with the fishermans and get a spade or vulcan ! i know this brings up a new topic on choice of anchor. Whats your thoughts on this?
all the best

Peter

And at the risk of belaboring a point, this was started by considerations of anchoring deep. For those considering this dilemma with windlasses, one should go somewhere and either anchor deep or go to deep water and drop your bower and 25-30 meters of chain over the bow and then use the manual windlass to retrieve. Even my quite powerful electric windlass starts to strain at this level of weight and retrieval time increases a great deal.
Enough already, Dick

Hi Peter,
You bring up another safety issue with having a powered windlass that I neglected to mention before. I know you are clear, but I wish to underline it for others who may be reading. There is certainly an argument for simplicity, less expense and for exercise, but it should be kept in mind that one of the appreciations most mentioned by those who switch from manual to powered winches is the ease with which they are able to re-anchor. First or even second choice anchoring spots do not always feel right when settled and to quickly and easily adjust can be a good thing. That said, adding a powered windlass is no small project.
My best,
Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

thanks Dick and Simon for your replies.

I think now that 10 mm of G40 is the best option. I can see the logic in the G70 and 8mm though but we have plenty of space in bow for 100 m .
re windlass I can see that not many share my view on manual ones! i suppose i am thinking of simplicity over another electrical setup. cost is a consideration with the lofrans electric windlass for our boat coming in at €2500. Also and perhaps a bit on the masochistic side, having used manual windlasses for ever , they are one of the few ways on a boat to give the arms a work out ! but repeated anchoring in stiff conditions is not fun i admit. Will think a little more on this one.
all the best

Peter

Peter I am not sure if you have already seen this thread which discusses G70 chain at some length. https://www.forum.oceancruisingclub.org/anchors-and-anchoring/760-g70-anchor-chain.html