I am trying to post this on the OCC forum chain discussion but it doesn 't work. Would you please post it for me? Thanks

Best wishes,
Charles
s/v Dawnpiper

Hi:
I want to add several comments and suggestions. I also had problems getting my Rocna 88 lb anchor to set unless backing extremely slowly. S/v Dawnpiper is a Trintella 47, 40,000 lbs.
The Rocna also failed to reset when the tide turned, and I dragged. I was so disappointed in the Rocna that I switched to a galvanized Spade 99 lbs. I do not use a swivel as I have seen failures in stainless swivels The chain is stabiled by a roller with a notch in it for the chain so it never seems to come up twisted, or need a swivel. My spare is the Spade aluminum 66 lb, and kedge is the Fortress Fox-37.
I concur with Dick that the Morgan 's Cloud AAC site is excellent: everyone could benefit from the careful discussion there.
The end of my chain is attached by a heavy line to a bulkhead below with the length adjusted to keep and ensure the chain stays on the gypsy. A 50 foot length of yellow polypropylene 1/4 inch line is affixed to the end of the chain. I can cut the heavy securing line at deck level if I ever have to loose my bower in an emergency, and the polypropylene floating line allows later easy retrieval.
Best wishes
Charles Starke, s/v Dawnpiper

Too early in the morning to be typing clearly. D

Hi WB,
Always nice to hear field reports.
May 2017 may also bring safe anchoring.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

We seem to be able to set our 33kg spade on our 44ft, 19t ketch with suprisingly little scope. In 40kts of wind we have had just 4:1 scope and it holds perfectly. We would have let out more chain but the anchorage was crowded.

PMorley,
Sounds like a well thought through and effect strategy for what can be a challenging anchoring situation. I know for sure that the River Guadiana has good holding until one finds the spot(s?) where (it seems) a gravel barge dumped its load. I like your 2 anchors for a few reasons, not least as the River Guadiana (maybe most rivers) has a great deal of debris coming down stream and it takes little build up to add tremendously to anchor loads. Two anchors would bring piece of mind in that regard.
There are certainly anchoring challenges which call strongly for 2 anchors. Generally, though, I lean towards one anchor and about 5-1 or so of scope and a good stretchy snubber. If you think you are good to near gale conditions with the above, then you are likely in good shape ground tackle-wise. If you think you would not be good, I would be looking to get either a bigger anchor or a better designed anchor. In your case, you got the weight nailed. but at some point I suspect you will try a Spade or a Rockna (maybe a Manson, but I have no experience there) and be quite surprised by how superior they are to the CQR.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

I have frequently deployed two anchors as a bahamian moor when anchoring on a strongly tidal river such as the Guadiana or the Tamar - i.e. when strong currents are expected in different directions.

The method I 've used only really applies in shallow water (not the Tamar on springs then!), but has the benefit of being feasible under sail and single-handed.
1. deploy first anchor - the primary if it 's ebbing, or the secondary on the flood - boat lies to tide
2. let out full length of rode (i.e. more than necessary for adequate scope, possibly extending with warp if needed)
3. lower second anchor
4. pull first anchor rode in while paying second anchor rode out to get to desired scope on both

I see this as an advantage over one anchor with a huge amount of chain as
both anchors are at least partially set from the off, and definitely from the first change of tide. Thereafter they never need to re-set, but boat swings between them and the load is taken by the primary anchor on the ebb and the secondary on the flood.
Personally this gives me more peace of mind than the aforementioned big anchor/long chain as in my experience setting the anchor is when any problems are likely to manifest.

It also significantly reduces wandering around at anchor - admittedly this does mean it 's only really practical near other boats using a similar technique!

The chains do tangle but I find this is just a twist at the top which can be cleared easily by freeing the boat end of the rode (having first secured the chain lower down!) and unwinding the top, usually from the dinghy.



For what it 's worth the primary is a 45lb CQR (24ft boat, but pretty heavy) - concievably my approach might change with a Rocna or similar, but I suspect not as I assume they are still vulnerable to a patch of gravel or fouling something that stops them bedding in properly.

Obviously cruising grounds, anchorages, boats and people all differ - hence we end up with interesting conversations!

Hi Bill,
I would lean away from any lightweight anchor as a replacement for a bower, especially if you are thinking kelp or weeds, as you state is your intention. Weight and a penetrating tip such as the new generation anchors have is what allows the anchor to wiggle down into the sea bottom. Danforth (Fortress) style anch ors tend to get hung up (in weeds/kelp) and never reach the sea bottom, especially those that are light in weight. A galvanized Spade is ideal for a back-up bower in some ways as it can be taken apart for ease of stowage and can be transported in pieces (assembled on deck) which is a lot kinder to the furniture (and your back) as you get it out of its storage place. In some ways back up anchors are cruising ground dependent. Those of us who have occasion to anchor out in a hurricane may choose to have more robust back-up ground tackle.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

Fortunately, I can concur too! I already have a Fortress back-up! My primary aim for a third anchor is as a replacement should the Manson be lost for some reason - and I think the Spade will more ably fill in for the Manson - especially where kelp might be involved.
The advantage of the Spade is it can be taken apart and Aluminium means it 's not too heavy. The disadvantage is that it 's aluminium and not too heavy!!! I am thinking that the lighter weight of the Aluminium will likely make it more difficult to set - but I also can imagine that once set, it 'll probably hold as well as a conventional Spade.

Bill Balme

[quote="bbalme" post=2296] I 'm now thinking of getting an Aluminum Spade as a back-up that could be deployed if needs be from a dinghy...[/quote]

Hi Bill, I must concur with Dick on the Fortress aluminium anchor as a best bet as back up. We have one to deploy from the dinghy. It is so light weight for the holding it delivers. It works extremely well in soft bottoms and stows flat which is great. Both the Spade and the Fortress disassemble for stowing, but the Fortress takes up slightly less space and is lighter weight.

Some time ago, the aluminium Spade was having some problems (see this blog) which I understand they have addressed. But it means being cautious with second hand purchases.

Both Sea Tec & Fun and Fortress have excellent reputations for service.

Vice Commodore, OCC 

Dear Bill,
Thanks for the info and you do mirror what Daria was reporting. It is always nice to get actual field reports.
I absolutely support you choosing to put your weight allocation in a big modern anchor. My world has led to more experience with Spade and Rocna. The Manson is presently getting a real world test by an American sailing guru, Ralph Naranjo that is being written up in Practical Sailor, an American magazine that is usually worth spending time with.
You might consider a Fortress over an aluminium Spade as a kedge. It is my take that some anchors are more dependent on weight for effectiveness and some more dependent on design. When going for light weight, such as a kedge, especially where the pull will be in one direction and you need worry less about re-setting characteristics, I see the design of the Fortress as hard to beat for that duty. I am less sure how the Spade, where lead in the tip seems to me very important in the galvanized version, would fair, but I do not have any experience with the aluminium Spade and I have used the Fortress as a kedge a good deal.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy