Dick
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Hi Andy, This is a very nice thoughtful list and you have covered lots of bases. A few questions and some thoughts follow: Are you writing about a boat out of water (yes, I would guess)? Mast in? In the following, I c&p your advice and follow with questions/comments. Drain out Engine and generator Exhaust silencers. And Fill Raw water inlet manifold via service valve run engine and generator to fill exhaust system. If I follow your terminology correctly, I believe we have similar procedures: I run antifreeze with anti-corrosion properties via a service valve through the engine which effectively fills all the raw water hoses, passages, and the muffler/silencer. I like everything filled with antifreeze as this way the engine passages are not exposed to the salty marine air and are protected from corrosion and freezing. Any engineers out there who can weigh in here? Blow out all Fresh water pipes with airline; Supply, Hot & Cold. I have never done this, but I would want to be sure to get to the water residing in the pockets of the pumps. I am also curious whether blown air would push through pumps. Perhaps another option is to take anti-freeze that is for potable water systems and run it through the pumps and system: bypassing the water heater because it just takes too much to fill. This may be better advice on the American side of the pond where I have found this product to be quite inexpensive: in contrast to the UK where I found this stuff considerably more dear. Not sure what a Quooker is. Fuel polishing: remove impellor Assume impellor is in a circulation pump that moves diesel fuel around for polishing: why remove impellor? BATTERIES 1. Disconnect House & Generator gels. 2. Leave AGM’s on charge if away more than 6mths Assume you are referring to gel cell batteries (for starter batteries?). It sounds like you are more comfortable leaving gel cell batteries unattended for long periods than AGMs (for house batteries?). Is this the case? I am also curious (nothing to do with winter) about mixing types of batteries: how does that work? My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
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Janice FENNYMORE-WHITE
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This is our Check list for Destiny for an over winter in Sisimiut, Greenland
Minus 40°c Winterising Check List 2017
DRAIN 1. Empty water tanks 2. Drain Calorifiers by inlet, Use airline on the Outlet. 3. Drain Quooker by removing and turning upside down. 4. Blow out all Fresh water pipes with airline; Supply, Hot & Cold. 5. Blow out sea water system. 6. Drain out Engine and generator Exhaust silencers. 7. Holding tanks 8. Forecabin grey water collecting tank. 9. Fresh water carbon filter unit 10. Soap dishes
ANTIFREEZE 1. Check all antifreeze to relevant concentration; Engine Generator Central heating Fridge coolant Bilge pump manifold 2. Fill Raw water inlet manifold via service valve run engine and generator to fill exhaust system. 3. Fill heads and flush through into pumps and seacocks.
WATERMAKER 1. Drain down filters and wash or replace. Fill system with preservative. Then either: A. Remove main panel and store in above freezing area, blow through HP and priming pump with air or B. Fill system with a mix of glycerine/Sodium Metabisulphate antifreeze and preservative.
REMOVE IMPELLORS 1. Engine Raw water 2. Engine Emergency bilge pump 3. Generator Raw water 4. Forepeak Bilge 5. Fuel polishing
OIL CHANGE & SERVICE 1. Engine 2. Generator 3. Outboards
BATTERIES 1. Disconnect House & Generator gels. 2. Leave AGM’s on charge if away more than 6mths.
REMOVE OFF BOAT 1. All water based drinks unless in coke/ lemonade style bottles 2. Remove any wine. 3. Remove all cleaning products that are water based or in hand sprayers; Bleach etc 4. Check First Aid kit for Eye wash- water based disinfectants etc. 5. All tinned goods unless high fat content, but stand all in a plastic bucket. BLOCK (To prevent fine arctic powder snow) Engine space air inlet and outlet vents Microwave vent Galley extractor vent All dorades Companionway
SY Destiny Andy Fennymore-White
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Dick
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Hi Daria, Another good reason to cobble together (quite easy) a bypass for the hot water heater/calorifier is that it just takes a lot of antifreeze to ensure that it has enough in it to keep from freezing. Emptying it is more of a sure thing. The by-pass may also keep your fresh water system (at least the cold water part) functional if (when) your hot water heater/calorifier goes bad. My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
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Daria Blackwell
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Drain and bypass the water heater to avoid having antifreeze residue to flush out. Flush a small amount of vinegar and vegetable oil through heads to keep microorganisms from growing and rubber lubricated.
Vice Commodore, OCC
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Dick
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Hi DHeath, There are certain base line considerations when it comes to devising an over-wintering plan. You wrote this following Simon’s initial post with regards to very cold climate. Is that the case? Are you in water or out? Mast in or out? Do you have a caretaker who can visit say, once a month, go inside and check battery voltage and bilge? Do you have access to electricity? Will the boat be covered? How long is the lay up? In a decision tree, each of the above considerations pushes one direction or another. Below I have given some quick thoughts to some of your to-do list (Your thought followed by my comment. I am shooting from the hip a bit as I may not understand your particular situation/boat well, but I thought it worthwhile as we are developing a more generic plan. My best, Dick Stevenson You said the vessel would be un-attended: I would do my best to have someone one hand to be a caretaker. At some future date we can get into the details of what his/her inspection should entail. fill all water tanks and add 1 tablespoon/25 US Gallons of Chlorine Bleach I would empty all tanks in any climate. What is your thinking about filling? check battery water (over fill about 50% of the allowable room) Not sure this is wise, but I have not owned flooded batteries in decades. I would suggest adding that much water to charge and use the batteries for a period to ensure the new water is well mixed with the electrolyte. drain salt water from engine pump saltwater lines empty Not so easy with some engines and may leave pockets of raw water. Better, perhaps, to break the raw water intake hose and put in a bucket of antifreeze with anti-corrosion properties. pull all fuses, except bilge pump Not sure the rational. If bilge pump is on its own circuit, as I would recommend it to be, then to use the house battery dis-connect switch should keep any power from getting to the electrical distribution panel/circuit breakers/ fuses. empty fridge and leave open and turned off Use this time to clean thoroughly shut off water if connected to shore water and disconnect hose (Once a faucet did not shut all the way off and the pistol nozzle broke while we were away and only our bilge pump and an alert neighbor saved us. Please see my write up in the Forum archives of a method to ensure that you do not sink your boat when connected to shore water supply: one of the more embarrassing ways to lose your boat.
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Dick
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[quote=dheath][quote=Simon Currin]In order to remember the lessons we have learned in recent years I would like to write a ‘best practice’ article on preparing a boat to overwinter (unattended) in very cold climates. It would be great to use this thread to collate the experiences of others. Simon[/quote]
Here is my check list. It was for our own use and may not make sense to others. I tried to clarify the tings I noticed, but feel free to ask.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Bring things inside Boat hooks stern anchor stern line reel MOB pole remove headsails tie mainsail to the boom empty cockpit lockers disconnect all antennas disconnect power cords disconnect VHF (all wires) disconnect depth sounder (all wires) turn on solar panel rotate Engine to close all valves (Most engines do not have this feature) reverse forward vents, if not in slip or on land rig after vents for rain, make sure all vents are properly fitted. tie engine room door open fill all water tanks and add 1 tablespoon/25 US Gallons of Chlorine Bleach close all ports and curtains check battery water (over fill about 50% of the allowable room) check bilge lock pilot berth rig interior for rough weather (not if on land, but we do have earthquakes) dive on mooring wrap cutlass bearing and prop minimize air and cooking oil bottles that are in use, or give away (You can add water to reduce the air) dispose of perishable food remove flags oil tools and vice close water inlet and head and galley seacocks if in water. Put bronze wool or scrubby in them if on land, to keep critters out drain salt water from engine pump saltwater lines empty empty teapot lock Dinghy on cabin top put calculators in ammo box for lightning protection pull all fuses, except bilge pump leave auto bilge pump in auto position and reset counter. Some open a low seacock and remove the hose, so water can exit. Or, drain at shaft log. empty fridge and leave open and turned off rinse stainless steel cookware and sink with freshwater. Do not use saltwater anymore empty trash and slop bucket. (We put dry trash in a large waste basket and fruit & veg scraps in a smaller slop bucket, that we empty more often.) put out roach proof. This is super fine boric acid. Just a very light dusting in cupboards and the sole. http://acehardwaremaldives.com/product/outdoor-living/73862/ lock all hatches shut off water if connected to shore water and disconnect hose (Once a faucet did not shut all the way off and the pistol nozzle broke while we were away and only our bilge pump and an alert neighbor saved us. Stow drained water hose put blankets and things that can fall on sole open internal lockers, etc. for ventilation double check that all portholes, etc are closed check all dock lines and chafe gear
If putting antifreeze in freshwater system, be sure to remove all water first, then add special non-toxic antifreeze, and pump through the system.
When removing antifreeze, be sure to flush very well with clean water.
When returning to boat, the freshwater will not taste good until thoroughly flushed. Probably this comes from the freshwater pump diaphragms.
Put marina gate cards on chart table, in obvious spot
edited by dheath on 1/17/2019 edited by dheath on 1/17/2019[/quote]
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dheath
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[quote=Simon Currin]In order to remember the lessons we have learned in recent years I would like to write a ‘best practice’ article on preparing a boat to overwinter (unattended) in very cold climates. It would be great to use this thread to collate the experiences of others. Simon[/quote]
Here is my check list. It was for our own use and may not make sense to others. I tried to clarify the tings I noticed, but feel free to ask.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Bring things inside Boat hooks stern anchor stern line reel MOB pole remove headsails tie mainsail to the boom empty cockpit lockers disconnect all antennas disconnect power cords disconnect VHF (all wires) disconnect depth sounder (all wires) turn on solar panel rotate Engine to close all valves (Most engines do not have this feature) reverse forward vents, if not in slip or on land rig after vents for rain, make sure all vents are properly fitted. tie engine room door open fill all water tanks and add 1 tablespoon/25 US Gallons of Chlorine Bleach close all ports and curtains check battery water (over fill about 50% of the allowable room) check bilge lock pilot berth rig interior for rough weather (not if on land, but we do have earthquakes) dive on mooring wrap cutlass bearing and prop minimize air and cooking oil bottles that are in use, or give away (You can add water to reduce the air) dispose of perishable food remove flags oil tools and vice close water inlet and head and galley seacocks if in water. Put bronze wool or scrubby in them if on land, to keep critters out drain salt water from engine pump saltwater lines empty empty teapot lock Dinghy on cabin top put calculators in ammo box for lightning protection pull all fuses, except bilge pump leave auto bilge pump in auto position and reset counter. Some open a low seacock and remove the hose, so water can exit. Or, drain at shaft log. empty fridge and leave open and turned off rinse stainless steel cookware and sink with freshwater. Do not use saltwater anymore empty trash and slop bucket. (We put dry trash in a large waste basket and fruit & veg scraps in a smaller slop bucket, that we empty more often.) put out roach proof. This is super fine boric acid. Just a very light dusting in cupboards and the sole. http://acehardwaremaldives.com/product/outdoor-living/73862/ lock all hatches shut off water if connected to shore water and disconnect hose (Once a faucet did not shut all the way off and the pistol nozzle broke while we were away and only our bilge pump and an alert neighbor saved us. Stow drained water hose put blankets and things that can fall on sole open internal lockers, etc. for ventilation double check that all portholes, etc are closed check all dock lines and chafe gear
If putting antifreeze in freshwater system, be sure to remove all water first, then add special non-toxic antifreeze, and pump through the system.
When removing antifreeze, be sure to flush very well with clean water.
When returning to boat, the freshwater will not taste good until thoroughly flushed. Probably this comes from the freshwater pump diaphragms.
Put marina gate cards on chart table, in obvious spot
edited by dheath on 1/17/2019 edited by dheath on 1/17/2019
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Dick
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Hi Simon, Yes, I would like to know more about the built-in de-humidifier. Thanks, Dick
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Dick
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Hi Bill, Not in any particular order and with respect to the numbers from your posting: 5, Living aboard is wonderful and, yes, one of the joys in the 12 years we lived aboard full time was that we did not have to winterize. 4. Antifreeze in the UK for fresh water systems, I found very much more expensive, which made winterizing far more of a challenge. I am glad to return to inexpensive antifreeze. But, I agree, when in doubt, use more. 3. A good reason to have a caretaker check occasionally and have some fresh antifreeze ready at hand to top up the bilges supply. 2. By lead acid I assume the batteries to be flooded. Flooded batteries last according to maintenance (topping up the electrolyte, charging regimen, etc.) and the quality when bought (which vary widely). Alchemy relies on good quality gel batteries which I have been very happy with for over 2 decades now and am very familiar with. That said, most cruisers who wander widely (and anchor a lot) are opting nowadays for AGMs which have a few attributes that make them a (small) step more desirable than gels. 2. I also never disconnect during winter storage. 1. There is a necessary vigilance around boats (salt water) with electricity that exceeds the vigilance necessary in other areas. We become seduced into thinking that we can operate as if we were at home on land: and we cannot. I do not like leaving boats plugged in un-attended for lengths of time. The anti is too high: when mishaps occur, they are usually serious. I am back in the Americas (Canada now) and one of the first things I did was to survey my long un-used 110 AC system and I am about to get a professional survey (something I believe every one should do every decade or so: an electrical survey by a qualified and certified marine electrician). Fires scare me more than most anything on a boat. We are upgrading our shore power plugs to “Smart Plugs”, something I believe every boat will be required to do in the future as they are so much safer and also looking into upgrading our galvanic isolator. My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
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Bill Balme
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1. Dehumidifiers: In the past I've left the boat without dehumidifier but vented (4 dorades and vents in the shrink wrap covering)) - no detrimental effects. No significant mold either. Last month when I left the boat for just 2 weeks in damp Whitehaven, I left the portable dehumidifier (running without qualms) but stupidly, did not connect the outflow hose correctly, so it stopped after filling up the first tray! (Idiot!) Note: We did nearly burn our boat down last year in the Caribbean when we left the Christmas lights on while ashore for a drink - the extension cord connection sitting on top of the sail cover melted - fortunately the inverter tripped off before serious damage occurred. Now I always check the condition of the plug and socket - to me the weakest link in the circuit as all other connections should be solid. 2. Batteries: I have lead acid, never disconnected them during the winter, never stored them elsewhere. Never had particularly good life out of them either! - but I suspect life was more due to poor usage than storage... 3. Bilge pump - I always leave on since water does enter through mast, etc. I constantly worried that antifreeze in the bilge would become so diluted as to not be effective - so far it's never frozen and while New England is not the coldest spot, it's not exactly balmy either! 4. Antifreeze usage - in New England I would typically use at least twice as much antifreeze as anyone else! Probably because I was doing it wrong or stupidly - but I wanted to be sure I got every bit of hose & pump covered. So far never lost anything due to freezing and the stuff is so cheap that I consider it good insurance. 5. Living aboard is so much easier - I haven't winterized anything this winter as the boat is being kept nice and cozy - previous two years we solved it by heading to the Caribbean!
Bill Balme s/v Toodle-oo!
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