continued
The first instance was when you suggested that the AAC site’s principle author had questionable conflicts of interest in his reporting that Rocna anchors occasionally had difficulties re-setting after a significant wind shift. I pointed out that he was merely reporting the accumulating evidence from other sources and listed the sources for others to see and evaluate. Further, an OCC member subsequently reported just this resetting problem occurring. I requested you visit the site and review the data. I do not know whether you did so, but I have noticed no retraction nor apology on the, to my mind, completely unwarranted suggestion that his reporting was influenced by a conflict of interest.

finally:
Now there is, at the end of your comment in this stream, again to my mind, a gratuitous suggestion not to join the site and a comparison to the OCC Forum as having “more and better” information. Why do that? If you feel the site passes on poor information, please point out what you perceive as errors. I very much do not think it necessary to pit the sites against each other nor do I think a $20 dollar yearly fee, in the scheme of boat expenses, worth even any comment or consideration. I participate and contribute a great deal to the OCC forum and I do the same at AAC’s site. I would want to put your “more and better” comment aside, an evaluation I very much disagree with, but that is really beside the point. For you to go out of your way to undermine my suggestion that someone may find the AAC site a helpful spot for additional information, I find undermining of my trying to be of service on the OCC site.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

Peter and Dick
I am sorry this discussion has now gone sideways.
For the record, I have nothing against AAC. We were early supporters of their Norwegian Cruising Guides, and have published very positive articles about them.
All I am objecting to is pushing commercial websites on this forum. We do not push our non-commercial sites, which have copious free information, as we do promote our books on them. We have long used similar guidelines as on the OCC FB page when posting on this forum.
Nuff said - discussion closed
Happy Christmas
Alex

thanks very much for all the comments, this has been very helpful.

all the best,

Peter

Hi Alex,
I respectfully suggest the issue not be closed. It is certainly not from my point of view.
There are a couple of issues:
The most important one is the undermining my comments and suggestions on the OCC site. I participate solely on the OCC Forum to convey the best information and thoughts I have when members ask questions, and I try to differentiate the two. If you think the directions I point have problematic elements for the handling of our vessels, then, by all means, challenge my thinking. If you think other venues have better information, please direct the reader to the site and the specific area where the relevant information resides.
But please do not undermine my suggestions. If I wish to suggest that someone might benefit from a source of information where I have absolutely no commercial interests, I would want to not have that interfered with any more than I would want censored a suggestion that someone might consider buying a product such as a Spade anchor (or a Rocna or a swivel etc.). I would also want to be free, and have others be free, to mention the benefits of reading yours and Daria’s book or reading another book by an OCC member (or any other book, magazine, web site) if I considered them likely to benefit cruising knowledge.
As an aside, I would think that AAC would be just the kind of endeavor that OCC would support. The site is solely to promote offshore sailing especially in challenging areas (high latitude) where the principles have much experience. AAC’s principles are OCC members. Membership fees are quite modest and were instituted to cover expenses for the running of the site. I would suspect that an evaluation of their per/hour earnings, if any, would be laughable or in the negative realm. That the AAC is rapidly becoming (there already in my evaluation) the premier go-to site for honest expert evaluations of products/techniques/safety pertaining to offshore sailing: all that and more makes the site a no brainer in my mind for many OCC members.
But evaluation of sites aside: again, my interest is just to have the freedom to convey to any reader the best information and thoughts I have that promotes cruising. I find any restrictions in doing so not in the best interests of the OCC nor of its members. I welcome challenges to my thinking and conclusions, but I resist restrictions and censorship such as you feel inclined to impose. I believe this is important and is not closed.
Respectfully submitted, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

Alex & Dick,

From my perspective as Forum moderator I am always delighted to accept both of your contributions to this Forum as these contributions are always thoughtful, thought provoking and based on decades of experience.

I would just like to correct a possible misunderstanding. Unlike the OCC Facebook page the OCC Forum has never banned commercial use or self promotion. Indeed it contains many links to items for sale etc. From time to time we have even allowed guest posts by businesses where the post is clearly in the member 's interests. Unlike FB we do not risk being plagued by a deluge of dubious worth and if we were it would be easily dealt with by Moderation. I know these things were much discussed during the summer on Facebook and I think that is where some of the confusion arises but I am happy to say that the Forum is, and hopefully will remain, far less regulated.

Please both continue to share your experiences and make this Forum a vibrant and useful resource for our members. I know that our members are discerning enough to distinguish between genuine advice based on real life experience and shallow commercial interest. To date I have seen none of the latter.

If we need to discuss a perceived need to increase the rules within this Forum then we can open a separate thread to discuss this elsewhere. I suggest the "Development" thread. However I firmly believe that additional regulation is not required as this Forum is not as vulnerable as our FB page.

Thank you both for your excellent posts.

Simon

Hi Peter,
You are very welcome. I am sorry that this discussion went, as Alex says, a bit sideways, although some important (to me) clarifications emerged. I hope it did not unduly derail any questions or thoughts you may have had. Please let us know what choices you make down the line.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

Hi Simon,
Thanks for the clarification. The guidelines you spell out are right in line with what I consider reasonable and right in line the type of atmosphere in which I want to participate.
Thanks, Dick

I am trying to post this on the OCC forum chain discussion but it doesn 't work. Would you please post it for me? Thanks

Best wishes,
Charles
s/v Dawnpiper

Hi:
I want to add several comments and suggestions. I also had problems getting my Rocna 88 lb anchor to set unless backing extremely slowly. S/v Dawnpiper is a Trintella 47, 40,000 lbs.
The Rocna also failed to reset when the tide turned, and I dragged. I was so disappointed in the Rocna that I switched to a galvanized Spade 99 lbs. I do not use a swivel as I have seen failures in stainless swivels The chain is stabiled by a roller with a notch in it for the chain so it never seems to come up twisted, or need a swivel. My spare is the Spade aluminum 66 lb, and kedge is the Fortress Fox-37.
I concur with Dick that the Morgan 's Cloud AAC site is excellent: everyone could benefit from the careful discussion there.
The end of my chain is attached by a heavy line to a bulkhead below with the length adjusted to keep and ensure the chain stays on the gypsy. A 50 foot length of yellow polypropylene 1/4 inch line is affixed to the end of the chain. I can cut the heavy securing line at deck level if I ever have to loose my bower in an emergency, and the polypropylene floating line allows later easy retrieval.
Best wishes
Charles Starke, s/v Dawnpiper

Just a thank you to Charles for the tip on ensuring the bulkhead attachment just appears above deck. I can see the enormous value in not having to race below with knife in hand to lose the anchor! Just a slight concern with the 50ft floating line and the danger to any boat 's propeller? Wouldn 't a handy fender be a better retrieval marker?
I have a Spade and a Rocna. Both so far have been equally impressive. However the hollow shank on the Spade has bent slightly, probably when caught on a rock at the change of tide.
In relation to swivels (I do use one) it is important to check frequently that the securing screw does not work loose, but equally importantly that there are a few links of chain between the anchor shank and the swivel. If the swivel is connected directly to the shank it can impose a sideways pull across the swivel joint rather than maintaining an in line pull.