Schengen for Non-EU residents


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Maxwell Fletcher
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Thank you very much Hasbun. That could be very helpful to say a US citizen who winters their boat in the UK. They could cruise to the Netherlands, Germany, Poland, Estonia, and Sweden for up to 90 days, then cruise Denmark and Norway for another 90 days before returning to England.

Best regards, Max
Daria Blackwell
Daria Blackwell
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Americans to Apply for EU Travel Authorization starting 2021

US citizens will have to apply for an ETIAS prior to their travel towards Europe, in order to be allowed to enter the territory, starting January 1, 2021.
[color=#4d4b4d]
[/color]
[color=#4d4b4d]CNN article explains why. [/color]
[color=#4d4b4d]
[/color]
edited by DariaBlackwell on 3/9/2019
edited by DariaBlackwell on 3/9/2019

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Daria Blackwell
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Daria Blackwell - 3/9/2019
Americans to Apply for EU Travel Authorization starting 2021 US citizens will have to apply for an ETIAS prior to their travel towards Europe, in order to be allowed to enter the territory, starting January 1, 2021.[color=#4d4b4d][/color] CNN article explains why.  edited by DariaBlackwell on 3/9/2019 

ETIAS will not be mandatory until 2023. (as of March 2020)
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/etias-wont-be-mandatory-until-2023-official-sources-confirm/


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Daria Blackwell
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Addendum discussion from Facebook 12-06-2020:


SV Kestrel
14 hrs
We are US citizens who live aboard our sailboat full time and are currently in Grenada. Our pre-COVID plan had been to go through the Panama Canal and head west into the Pacific. However, with the current uncertainty, we are now strongly considering spending the winter in the Caribbean and then heading east instead to Europe and the UK in May once COVID restrictions have lifted (assuming they have).

As US citizens, our travel in Europe is complicated by Schengen limitations and creates a real dilemma. We are not interested in crossing the Atlantic twice in one year year. Instead, we'd like to head from the Caribbean in the spring, travel throughout northern Europe in the summer and fall, and overwinter in the UK. We'd then like to travel south from UK the next spring and return to the Caribbean by way of the Canaries in the standard November time frame. Essentially this works out to a year-and-a-half journey. We don't have a great interest in the Med, although once we leave the UK after overwintering we can spend time in the Med as necessary.

Has any US citizen done something similar? If so, how did you do it? Did you get an extension to your stay; did you get a long stay visa from an EU country? We can only stay in the UK for 6 months out of every 12 months, so spending more than a winter there isn't really a possibility. Sailing for 90 days and then flying out of the EU for 90 days, leaving the boat behind, isn't an option for us.

Thank you, brain trust. We'd really like to make this work if we can.

10You, Frances Rennie, Gus Wilson and 7 others
27 Comments

Daria Blackwell
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Barbara Arden Lockwood Johnston
Barbara Arden Lockwood Johnston We discovered, after the fact, that most, if not all of the Scandinavian countries will give you an additional 90 days after your initial Schengen allotment runs out. I think it's limited to only one country, but check the immigration websites of thos…See More
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Odette Hasbun
Odette Hasbun The Scandi extension gives you an extra 90 days beyond Schengen... but not an extra 90 beyond Scandinavia itself. So if you spend 90 days in Sweden and then go to Denmark, Denmark will issue you zero additional days. However if you spend 90 days in Germany and then go to Denmark, Denmark will give you an extra 90 days.
At the end of the extra Scandinavian 90, you cannot go back to Schengen, because country extensions (exceptions to Schengen) are _not_ recognized by other Schengen countries. So if you went back to Germany, the Germans would simply see you as having just overstayed by 90 days.
Sailingwise, therefore, after the extra Scandi 90, your only options are UK, Ireland, or Russia, where Russia is unlikely to work as a Schengen wait-out period. Flightwise, you can take any plane to a third country, so long as it does not stop anywhere in Schengen.
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Geir Ove Bø
Geir Ove Bø europa is opening up now, in June. changeing nearly every day now.
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Pam MellonActive Now
Pam Mellon You can go to non Schengen places like Ireland.
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Daria Blackwell
Daria Blackwell Check out the Schengen thread on the OCC Forum.
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SV Kestrel
SV Kestrel Thanks, Daria, just read the thread.
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Daria Blackwell
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Gus Wilson
Gus Wilson Check your messages. I just sent one about this.
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Lars Hellman
Lars Hellman A detour to Norway (not EU) will also give you an additional 90 days when you sail back into EU. Besides, Norway is an absolutely gorgeous cruising ground if you can leave the Caribbean heat behind for a while. You will never forget it.
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· Reply · 13h · Edited
Neil McCubbin
Neil McCubbin Lars Hellman Agreed, Norway is great cruising
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Odette Hasbun
Odette Hasbun Unfortunately it is not true that you can sail back to Schengen after a Norwegian extension.
The primary problem is that in-country extensions (i.e., Schengen national exceptions) are not recognized by other Schengen countries, so the next country will simply see you as having overstayed your Schengen welcome by 90 days.
The secondary problem is one of logistics. Say you stamped into Schengen in France, went into Norway, got an extension stamp from UDI, and wanted to leave Norway straight for the Netherlands. When you go to the police station at, say, Haugesund and ask to be stamped out of Schengen, they will ask, where are you going? When you answer Amsterdam, they will most likely deny you a Schengen departure stamp... because you are going from Norway (Schengen) to Netherlands (Schengen). So the clock never stops. And when you get to Amsterdam, you cannot re-stamp into Schengen because you are already "in" since your original French stamp. You simply never left, and the clock has been running all this time.
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Nigel Collin Studdart
Nigel Collin Studdart I would second Norway it’s absolutely stunning and well worth a whole summer . The fjords are spectacular as are the towns . You can then head across to southern island and then Scotland and play the Eu game as it eventuates followed by a trip to Galicia in NW Spain which is also absolutely stunning
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Odette Hasbun
Odette Hasbun Yes, that works. Departing Norway, you get six months in the UK. Properly departing the UK and arriving in the Republic of Ireland, you can get an additional 90 Irish days which are not Schengen.
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Kitty Cullina-Bessey
Kitty Cullina-Bessey Following
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Kjell Dreyer
Kjell Dreyer But be aware that Norway is not part of EU (only EEA) it is part of Schengen....
But a nice trip is up to Scotland, through the Caledonian canal, and then about 300 nm east over to Stavanger and then down south Norway, over to Skagen in Denmark and further down south including Copenhagen and eventually the Kiel canal... enjoy 😀
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Lea Obermeyer
Lea Obermeyer Kjell Dreyer absolutely correct. We would love to have spent some time in Norway but it is strangely part of the schengen.
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Odette Hasbun
Odette Hasbun Last summer we departed the Shetland islands, checked into Norway at Haugesund, traveled down the coast through Avaldsnes, Stavanger, the Lysefjord into Lysebotn, Brusand, Vestre Hua, and departed Norway from Mandal.
Entering Denmark at Thyborøn, we v…See More
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Peter Whatley
Peter Whatley Good question Kestrel. Good comments OCC
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Judith L. Jacobsen
Judith L. Jacobsen Don’t miss Norway if you come to Europe ❤️
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Dennis K. Biby
Dennis K. Biby I've puzzled over this for a couple of years. The UK is not in Schengen so 6 months (180 days) will restart your 90 day Schengen cruise. In my planning I would hit Schengen perhaps in mid-July then hop to Morocco for 30 of so days then back across the Atlantic.
Two crossings in one year but with your plan to stay in UK, could be two years.
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Peter Dunham
Peter Dunham We had also planned pacific pre-covid but that is on hold. The med has a huge amount to offer, don’t skip it. Greece alone has some fabulous destinations and amazing culture. Ok, there is no marine life to speak of but places like Delphi, epidaurus, hydra etc have been real global highlights.
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Lea Obermeyer
Lea Obermeyer Gibraltar is nonSchengen which is where we reset the Schengen clock. Some Spanish ports near Gibraltar may choose not to recognize it as nonSchengen but every other country does and all the other ports of Spain it is not a problem. Portugal use to be easy to get an extension that allows you to stay within their borders past Schengen time so you would still need to go to a nonSchengen area after.
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Victor Langerwerf
Victor Langerwerf Use Gibraltar, Marocco, Algeria, Albania, Turkey as non EU countries when crossing the Med!
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Kathleen McCallum
Kathleen McCallum Turkey sailing is fabulous. You could bounce back and forth for years. I am planning to ship my boat over in 2021 and sail Greece, Turkey and Croatia.
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Odette Hasbun
Odette Hasbun "We can only stay in the UK for 6 months out of every 12 months". This is not true. The UK does not count days.
Please consider the file available at:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/visit-guidance 

This is the "UK Home Office Visit Guidance manual"
On page 18, you will find the following statement:
« There is no specified maximum period which an individual can spend in the UK in any period such as ‘6 months in 12 months’. »
Of course, Border Force will take a very dim view of any yachtsmen abusing their welcome in Britain.
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· Reply · 3h · Edited
Gus Wilson
Gus Wilson Odette, thanks for this. That has been the policy, but it has not been stated clearly in the past.
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Daria Blackwell
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Ian Park
Ian Park We went through Caledonian Canal last year but missed out Norway going through the Limfjord Canal in Denmark. Lovely trip.
And Hi to Odette who we met in Ireland!

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Dick
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Daria Blackwell - 6/12/2020
Addendum discussion from Facebook 12-06-2020:


SV Kestrel
14 hrs
We are US citizens who live aboard our sailboat full time and are currently in Grenada. Our pre-COVID plan had been to go through the Panama Canal and head west into the Pacific. However, with the current uncertainty, we are now strongly considering spending the winter in the Caribbean and then heading east instead to Europe and the UK in May once COVID restrictions have lifted (assuming they have).

As US citizens, our travel in Europe is complicated by Schengen limitations and creates a real dilemma. We are not interested in crossing the Atlantic twice in one year year. Instead, we'd like to head from the Caribbean in the spring, travel throughout northern Europe in the summer and fall, and overwinter in the UK. We'd then like to travel south from UK the next spring and return to the Caribbean by way of the Canaries in the standard November time frame. Essentially this works out to a year-and-a-half journey. We don't have a great interest in the Med, although once we leave the UK after overwintering we can spend time in the Med as necessary.

Has any US citizen done something similar? If so, how did you do it? Did you get an extension to your stay; did you get a long stay visa from an EU country? We can only stay in the UK for 6 months out of every 12 months, so spending more than a winter there isn't really a possibility. Sailing for 90 days and then flying out of the EU for 90 days, leaving the boat behind, isn't an option for us.

Thank you, brain trust. We'd really like to make this work if we can.

10You, Frances Rennie, Gus Wilson and 7 others
27 Comments

Daria Blackwell
Like
Comment
Comments
Barbara Arden Lockwood Johnston
Barbara Arden Lockwood Johnston We discovered, after the fact, that most, if not all of the Scandinavian countries will give you an additional 90 days after your initial Schengen allotment runs out. I think it's limited to only one country, but check the immigration websites of thos…See More
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Storms and Friends
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· Reply · 14h · Edited
Odette Hasbun
Odette Hasbun The Scandi extension gives you an extra 90 days beyond Schengen... but not an extra 90 beyond Scandinavia itself. So if you spend 90 days in Sweden and then go to Denmark, Denmark will issue you zero additional days. However if you spend 90 days in Germany and then go to Denmark, Denmark will give you an extra 90 days.
At the end of the extra Scandinavian 90, you cannot go back to Schengen, because country extensions (exceptions to Schengen) are _not_ recognized by other Schengen countries. So if you went back to Germany, the Germans would simply see you as having just overstayed by 90 days.
Sailingwise, therefore, after the extra Scandi 90, your only options are UK, Ireland, or Russia, where Russia is unlikely to work as a Schengen wait-out period. Flightwise, you can take any plane to a third country, so long as it does not stop anywhere in Schengen.
2
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· Reply · 4h
Geir Ove Bø
Geir Ove Bø europa is opening up now, in June. changeing nearly every day now.
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· Reply · 14h
Pam MellonActive Now
Pam Mellon You can go to non Schengen places like Ireland.
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· Reply · 14h
Daria Blackwell
Daria Blackwell Check out the Schengen thread on the OCC Forum.
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· Reply · 13h
SV Kestrel
SV Kestrel Thanks, Daria, just read the thread.
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· Reply · 11h
Daria Blackwell
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Gus Wilson
Gus Wilson Check your messages. I just sent one about this.
1
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· Reply · 13h
Lars Hellman
Lars Hellman A detour to Norway (not EU) will also give you an additional 90 days when you sail back into EU. Besides, Norway is an absolutely gorgeous cruising ground if you can leave the Caribbean heat behind for a while. You will never forget it.
Sea Wind
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· Reply · 13h · Edited
Neil McCubbin
Neil McCubbin Lars Hellman Agreed, Norway is great cruising
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· Reply · 9h
Odette Hasbun
Odette Hasbun Unfortunately it is not true that you can sail back to Schengen after a Norwegian extension.
The primary problem is that in-country extensions (i.e., Schengen national exceptions) are not recognized by other Schengen countries, so the next country will simply see you as having overstayed your Schengen welcome by 90 days.
The secondary problem is one of logistics. Say you stamped into Schengen in France, went into Norway, got an extension stamp from UDI, and wanted to leave Norway straight for the Netherlands. When you go to the police station at, say, Haugesund and ask to be stamped out of Schengen, they will ask, where are you going? When you answer Amsterdam, they will most likely deny you a Schengen departure stamp... because you are going from Norway (Schengen) to Netherlands (Schengen). So the clock never stops. And when you get to Amsterdam, you cannot re-stamp into Schengen because you are already "in" since your original French stamp. You simply never left, and the clock has been running all this time.
2
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Nigel Collin Studdart
Nigel Collin Studdart I would second Norway it’s absolutely stunning and well worth a whole summer . The fjords are spectacular as are the towns . You can then head across to southern island and then Scotland and play the Eu game as it eventuates followed by a trip to Galicia in NW Spain which is also absolutely stunning
2
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· Reply · 13h
Odette Hasbun
Odette Hasbun Yes, that works. Departing Norway, you get six months in the UK. Properly departing the UK and arriving in the Republic of Ireland, you can get an additional 90 Irish days which are not Schengen.
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· Reply · 4h · Edited
Kitty Cullina-Bessey
Kitty Cullina-Bessey Following
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· Reply · 13h
Kjell Dreyer
Kjell Dreyer But be aware that Norway is not part of EU (only EEA) it is part of Schengen....
But a nice trip is up to Scotland, through the Caledonian canal, and then about 300 nm east over to Stavanger and then down south Norway, over to Skagen in Denmark and further down south including Copenhagen and eventually the Kiel canal... enjoy 😀
1
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· Reply · 13h
Lea Obermeyer
Lea Obermeyer Kjell Dreyer absolutely correct. We would love to have spent some time in Norway but it is strangely part of the schengen.
1
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· Reply · 12h · Edited
Odette Hasbun
Odette Hasbun Last summer we departed the Shetland islands, checked into Norway at Haugesund, traveled down the coast through Avaldsnes, Stavanger, the Lysefjord into Lysebotn, Brusand, Vestre Hua, and departed Norway from Mandal.
Entering Denmark at Thyborøn, we v…See More
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· Reply · 3h
Peter Whatley
Peter Whatley Good question Kestrel. Good comments OCC
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· Reply · 13h
Judith L. Jacobsen
Judith L. Jacobsen Don’t miss Norway if you come to Europe ❤️
1
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· Reply · 13h
Dennis K. Biby
Dennis K. Biby I've puzzled over this for a couple of years. The UK is not in Schengen so 6 months (180 days) will restart your 90 day Schengen cruise. In my planning I would hit Schengen perhaps in mid-July then hop to Morocco for 30 of so days then back across the Atlantic.
Two crossings in one year but with your plan to stay in UK, could be two years.
Hide or report this
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· Reply · 12h
Peter Dunham
Peter Dunham We had also planned pacific pre-covid but that is on hold. The med has a huge amount to offer, don’t skip it. Greece alone has some fabulous destinations and amazing culture. Ok, there is no marine life to speak of but places like Delphi, epidaurus, hydra etc have been real global highlights.
2
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· Reply · 12h
Lea Obermeyer
Lea Obermeyer Gibraltar is nonSchengen which is where we reset the Schengen clock. Some Spanish ports near Gibraltar may choose not to recognize it as nonSchengen but every other country does and all the other ports of Spain it is not a problem. Portugal use to be easy to get an extension that allows you to stay within their borders past Schengen time so you would still need to go to a nonSchengen area after.
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· Reply · 12h
Victor Langerwerf
Victor Langerwerf Use Gibraltar, Marocco, Algeria, Albania, Turkey as non EU countries when crossing the Med!
4
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· Reply · 12h
Kathleen McCallum
Kathleen McCallum Turkey sailing is fabulous. You could bounce back and forth for years. I am planning to ship my boat over in 2021 and sail Greece, Turkey and Croatia.
2
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· Reply · 7h
Odette Hasbun
Odette Hasbun "We can only stay in the UK for 6 months out of every 12 months". This is not true. The UK does not count days.
Please consider the file available at:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/visit-guidance 

This is the "UK Home Office Visit Guidance manual"
On page 18, you will find the following statement:
« There is no specified maximum period which an individual can spend in the UK in any period such as ‘6 months in 12 months’. »
Of course, Border Force will take a very dim view of any yachtsmen abusing their welcome in Britain.
Hide or report this
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· Reply · 3h · Edited
Gus Wilson
Gus Wilson Odette, thanks for this. That has been the policy, but it has not been stated clearly in the past.
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· Reply · 2h
Daria Blackwell
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Ian Park
Ian Park We went through Caledonian Canal last year but missed out Norway going through the Limfjord Canal in Denmark. Lovely trip.
And Hi to Odette who we met in Ireland!

Hi all,
I see this originated as a FB series. I do wish to respond, as it has found its way into the OCC Forum, but I would very much wish that none of my writing (on this stream of posts or any others) be copied and pasted and re-posted into FB. I could go into details why, if wished, but in the end, I would hope readers would just respect my wishes.
I am from the US and sailed our US flagged vessel in Europe (Med and Northern Europe) for just over 10 years. During that time, I had many hours of discussion about Schengen and I would venture to say, the subject came up with every not-EU boat we encountered. In the end it was certainly many hundreds of boats.
In that time, I know of 2 reports where boat crew was found to be in violation and faced consequences: one was the result of a moderately serious injury that kept the boat in place for an unexpected period of time (600 euro fines pp were spoken of even with the documenting of injury, but all was eventually-2 days- dropped with no fine or sanctions). The other was a couple who left the Schengen country for a couple of weeks only to have their return denied at the airport as they had over-stayed their 3 months/90 days even before leaving (as the boat was their home and in that country, after much discussion, they were allowed to go to their boat and leave forthwith, no fine).
I am not sure (and am curious) what the risk of Schengen violation really is as it has been actually applied.
Does anyone know the range of sanctions that could be applied? I am sure it is a range going right up to expulsion, but are there guidelines for officials that say, find someone 10 days over? How much is in the discretion of the officials involved? 
And, I think it would be of interest to accumulate a “data bank” -so to say- of those instances where there were Schengen violations that came to the attention of the authorities: what were the repercussions (if any). Please make this real personal knowledge (yourself or someone you know and not boatyard scuttlebutt) and, for sure, do not use names (boat or otherwise). Try to include details: how much over-stayed, was the violation noticed by port authorities, ferry terminals, airports, other? If fined or otherwise sanctioned, was that it or did the fact that there was a violation follow the people into the future in their dealings with other officials in the same country? Other countries? And let’s stick with violations involving boats and their crew.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

Dick
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Dick - 6/12/2020
Daria Blackwell - 6/12/2020
Addendum discussion from Facebook 12-06-2020:


SV Kestrel
14 hrs
We are US citizens who live aboard our sailboat full time and are currently in Grenada. Our pre-COVID plan had been to go through the Panama Canal and head west into the Pacific. However, with the current uncertainty, we are now strongly considering spending the winter in the Caribbean and then heading east instead to Europe and the UK in May once COVID restrictions have lifted (assuming they have).

As US citizens, our travel in Europe is complicated by Schengen limitations and creates a real dilemma. We are not interested in crossing the Atlantic twice in one year year. Instead, we'd like to head from the Caribbean in the spring, travel throughout northern Europe in the summer and fall, and overwinter in the UK. We'd then like to travel south from UK the next spring and return to the Caribbean by way of the Canaries in the standard November time frame. Essentially this works out to a year-and-a-half journey. We don't have a great interest in the Med, although once we leave the UK after overwintering we can spend time in the Med as necessary.

Has any US citizen done something similar? If so, how did you do it? Did you get an extension to your stay; did you get a long stay visa from an EU country? We can only stay in the UK for 6 months out of every 12 months, so spending more than a winter there isn't really a possibility. Sailing for 90 days and then flying out of the EU for 90 days, leaving the boat behind, isn't an option for us.

Thank you, brain trust. We'd really like to make this work if we can.

10You, Frances Rennie, Gus Wilson and 7 others
27 Comments

Daria Blackwell
Like
Comment
Comments
Barbara Arden Lockwood Johnston
Barbara Arden Lockwood Johnston We discovered, after the fact, that most, if not all of the Scandinavian countries will give you an additional 90 days after your initial Schengen allotment runs out. I think it's limited to only one country, but check the immigration websites of thos…See More
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Storms and Friends
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· Reply · 14h · Edited
Odette Hasbun
Odette Hasbun The Scandi extension gives you an extra 90 days beyond Schengen... but not an extra 90 beyond Scandinavia itself. So if you spend 90 days in Sweden and then go to Denmark, Denmark will issue you zero additional days. However if you spend 90 days in Germany and then go to Denmark, Denmark will give you an extra 90 days.
At the end of the extra Scandinavian 90, you cannot go back to Schengen, because country extensions (exceptions to Schengen) are _not_ recognized by other Schengen countries. So if you went back to Germany, the Germans would simply see you as having just overstayed by 90 days.
Sailingwise, therefore, after the extra Scandi 90, your only options are UK, Ireland, or Russia, where Russia is unlikely to work as a Schengen wait-out period. Flightwise, you can take any plane to a third country, so long as it does not stop anywhere in Schengen.
2
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· Reply · 4h
Geir Ove Bø
Geir Ove Bø europa is opening up now, in June. changeing nearly every day now.
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Like
· Reply · 14h
Pam MellonActive Now
Pam Mellon You can go to non Schengen places like Ireland.
Hide or report this
Like
· Reply · 14h
Daria Blackwell
Daria Blackwell Check out the Schengen thread on the OCC Forum.
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· Reply · 13h
SV Kestrel
SV Kestrel Thanks, Daria, just read the thread.
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· Reply · 11h
Daria Blackwell
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Gus Wilson
Gus Wilson Check your messages. I just sent one about this.
1
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· Reply · 13h
Lars Hellman
Lars Hellman A detour to Norway (not EU) will also give you an additional 90 days when you sail back into EU. Besides, Norway is an absolutely gorgeous cruising ground if you can leave the Caribbean heat behind for a while. You will never forget it.
Sea Wind
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Neil McCubbin
Neil McCubbin Lars Hellman Agreed, Norway is great cruising
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Odette Hasbun
Odette Hasbun Unfortunately it is not true that you can sail back to Schengen after a Norwegian extension.
The primary problem is that in-country extensions (i.e., Schengen national exceptions) are not recognized by other Schengen countries, so the next country will simply see you as having overstayed your Schengen welcome by 90 days.
The secondary problem is one of logistics. Say you stamped into Schengen in France, went into Norway, got an extension stamp from UDI, and wanted to leave Norway straight for the Netherlands. When you go to the police station at, say, Haugesund and ask to be stamped out of Schengen, they will ask, where are you going? When you answer Amsterdam, they will most likely deny you a Schengen departure stamp... because you are going from Norway (Schengen) to Netherlands (Schengen). So the clock never stops. And when you get to Amsterdam, you cannot re-stamp into Schengen because you are already "in" since your original French stamp. You simply never left, and the clock has been running all this time.
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Nigel Collin Studdart
Nigel Collin Studdart I would second Norway it’s absolutely stunning and well worth a whole summer . The fjords are spectacular as are the towns . You can then head across to southern island and then Scotland and play the Eu game as it eventuates followed by a trip to Galicia in NW Spain which is also absolutely stunning
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Odette Hasbun
Odette Hasbun Yes, that works. Departing Norway, you get six months in the UK. Properly departing the UK and arriving in the Republic of Ireland, you can get an additional 90 Irish days which are not Schengen.
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Kitty Cullina-Bessey
Kitty Cullina-Bessey Following
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Kjell Dreyer
Kjell Dreyer But be aware that Norway is not part of EU (only EEA) it is part of Schengen....
But a nice trip is up to Scotland, through the Caledonian canal, and then about 300 nm east over to Stavanger and then down south Norway, over to Skagen in Denmark and further down south including Copenhagen and eventually the Kiel canal... enjoy 😀
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Lea Obermeyer
Lea Obermeyer Kjell Dreyer absolutely correct. We would love to have spent some time in Norway but it is strangely part of the schengen.
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Odette Hasbun
Odette Hasbun Last summer we departed the Shetland islands, checked into Norway at Haugesund, traveled down the coast through Avaldsnes, Stavanger, the Lysefjord into Lysebotn, Brusand, Vestre Hua, and departed Norway from Mandal.
Entering Denmark at Thyborøn, we v…See More
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Peter Whatley
Peter Whatley Good question Kestrel. Good comments OCC
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Judith L. Jacobsen
Judith L. Jacobsen Don’t miss Norway if you come to Europe ❤️
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Dennis K. Biby
Dennis K. Biby I've puzzled over this for a couple of years. The UK is not in Schengen so 6 months (180 days) will restart your 90 day Schengen cruise. In my planning I would hit Schengen perhaps in mid-July then hop to Morocco for 30 of so days then back across the Atlantic.
Two crossings in one year but with your plan to stay in UK, could be two years.
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Peter Dunham
Peter Dunham We had also planned pacific pre-covid but that is on hold. The med has a huge amount to offer, don’t skip it. Greece alone has some fabulous destinations and amazing culture. Ok, there is no marine life to speak of but places like Delphi, epidaurus, hydra etc have been real global highlights.
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Lea Obermeyer
Lea Obermeyer Gibraltar is nonSchengen which is where we reset the Schengen clock. Some Spanish ports near Gibraltar may choose not to recognize it as nonSchengen but every other country does and all the other ports of Spain it is not a problem. Portugal use to be easy to get an extension that allows you to stay within their borders past Schengen time so you would still need to go to a nonSchengen area after.
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Victor Langerwerf
Victor Langerwerf Use Gibraltar, Marocco, Algeria, Albania, Turkey as non EU countries when crossing the Med!
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Kathleen McCallum
Kathleen McCallum Turkey sailing is fabulous. You could bounce back and forth for years. I am planning to ship my boat over in 2021 and sail Greece, Turkey and Croatia.
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Odette Hasbun
Odette Hasbun "We can only stay in the UK for 6 months out of every 12 months". This is not true. The UK does not count days.
Please consider the file available at:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/visit-guidance 

This is the "UK Home Office Visit Guidance manual"
On page 18, you will find the following statement:
« There is no specified maximum period which an individual can spend in the UK in any period such as ‘6 months in 12 months’. »
Of course, Border Force will take a very dim view of any yachtsmen abusing their welcome in Britain.
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Gus Wilson
Gus Wilson Odette, thanks for this. That has been the policy, but it has not been stated clearly in the past.
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Daria Blackwell
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Ian Park
Ian Park We went through Caledonian Canal last year but missed out Norway going through the Limfjord Canal in Denmark. Lovely trip.
And Hi to Odette who we met in Ireland!

Hi all,
I see this originated as a FB series. I do wish to respond, as it has found its way into the OCC Forum, but I would very much wish that none of my writing (on this stream of posts or any others) be copied and pasted and re-posted into FB. I could go into details why, if wished, but in the end, I would hope readers would just respect my wishes.
I am from the US and sailed our US flagged vessel in Europe (Med and Northern Europe) for just over 10 years. During that time, I had many hours of discussion about Schengen and I would venture to say, the subject came up with every not-EU boat we encountered. In the end it was certainly many hundreds of boats.
In that time, I know of 2 reports where boat crew was found to be in violation and faced consequences: one was the result of a moderately serious injury that kept the boat in place for an unexpected period of time (600 euro fines pp were spoken of even with the documenting of injury, but all was eventually-2 days- dropped with no fine or sanctions). The other was a couple who left the Schengen country for a couple of weeks only to have their return denied at the airport as they had over-stayed their 3 months/90 days even before leaving (as the boat was their home and in that country, after much discussion, they were allowed to go to their boat and leave forthwith, no fine).
I am not sure (and am curious) what the risk of Schengen violation really is as it has been actually applied.
Does anyone know the range of sanctions that could be applied? I am sure it is a range going right up to expulsion, but are there guidelines for officials that say, find someone 10 days over? How much is in the discretion of the officials involved? 
And, I think it would be of interest to accumulate a “data bank” -so to say- of those instances where there were Schengen violations that came to the attention of the authorities: what were the repercussions (if any). Please make this real personal knowledge (yourself or someone you know and not boatyard scuttlebutt) and, for sure, do not use names (boat or otherwise). Try to include details: how much over-stayed, was the violation noticed by port authorities, ferry terminals, airports, other? If fined or otherwise sanctioned, was that it or did the fact that there was a violation follow the people into the future in their dealings with other officials in the same country? Other countries? And let’s stick with violations involving boats and their crew.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

Hi Kestral,
The below reflects the years from 2011-2017.
I see nothing to interfere with your plans as stated. We did roughly the same for the 6 years we based ourselves out of the UK (3 years full time live-aboards in London and 3 years leaving the boat in various locations for the winter when we returned to the US. During the live-aboard years we returned to the US for a few weeks each winter.
Every season we would leave for Schengen countries. Two seasons we spent our Schengen time in Norway over-wintering the boat in Lerwick, an easy over-night to the Shetland Islands. Another season we wandered for 7 months from London to St Petersburg and back to London.
We encountered no issues or concerns with UK officials and our experience was that many perused our passports in some detail as our passport stamps reflected an unusual pattern.
It may be on the books, but in our researches and experience, there was no mention of restricting stay in the UK to 6 months out of 12. And, of all the vessels/crew we hung with during our years in the UK I do not remember that restriction ever being mentioned. In probably 25+ times returning to the UK and checking in over the years, every time we received a stamp which stated directly that we were allowed to stay for 6 months from the date of entry.
We explored Schengen extensions and other options, but decided they were too much of a hassle to deal with (our time coincided with much immigration turmoil in Europe, so things might have shifted since then). Clearly some have been able to make the effort and succeed and some of these efforts are elsewhere reported in the Forum.
And, yes, there is no way we would have missed our 10+ years in the Med and in Northern Europe. They are just fabulous cruising grounds with a rich history that many cruising grounds are unable to match. To my mind, it is just tragic that rules such as we are discussing cause cruising vessels to stay away.
Again, please do not copy this comm and re-post elsewhere.
Come back with questions/thoughts etc.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

Hasbun
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Denmark has changed the terms of their automatic extension above and beyond Schengen for certain nationalities.


For people from NZ and US, an excellent update: days spent elsewhere in Scandinavia no are no longer deducted! One should be able to do 90 days Schengen, 90 days Norway/Sweden (combined), and 90 days Denmark, strictly in that order, for an optimized maximum of up to
270 days before having to sail nonstop to Ireland, UK or Russia. Small new downside: any days spent in Denmark itself in the previous six months are now deducted. A big net win.


Malaysians, Chileans, Koreans, Australians, Canadians, Israelis, Japanese and Singaporeans, on the other hand, all get very slightly worse terms than before.


https://www.nyidanmark.dk/en-GB/Applying/Short%20stay%20visa/Visa%20free%20visits

Bill Balme
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Dick,
Your cruising methodology is a bit simpler than some (including Kestrel's) - in that you traveled back to the US during the winter - opening up time-frames that some of us don't have - we live on our boats 100% of the time.

Kestrel does seem to have a solution - and they are certainly available - but getting more and more difficult as new countries join the EU and Schengen. The difficulty is that scheduling some of the time's out of Schengen requires travel when you might not want to travel (like the North Sea or Biscay in December) in order to meet a deadline.

Your question of 'has anyone actually been fined/penalized over the years' is a great one - and one that I wrote the jist of on the FB thread (I didn't mention you or copy your words). So far nobody has come through - and I suspect that Odette's information that the immigration concern (in the UK at least) is about trying to sneak residency - which we cruisers are not...

As a 100% liveaboard boat, currently in the UK, it's a worry for us... the penalties talked of (boat impoundment, etc) would be totally catastrophic to us if they happened to come to pass.  Fingers crossed!

Cheers!



Bill Balme
s/v Toodle-oo!

Dick
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Bill Balme - 6/17/2020
Dick,
Your cruising methodology is a bit simpler than some (including Kestrel's) - in that you traveled back to the US during the winter - opening up time-frames that some of us don't have - we live on our boats 100% of the time.

Kestrel does seem to have a solution - and they are certainly available - but getting more and more difficult as new countries join the EU and Schengen. The difficulty is that scheduling some of the time's out of Schengen requires travel when you might not want to travel (like the North Sea or Biscay in December) in order to meet a deadline.

Your question of 'has anyone actually been fined/penalized over the years' is a great one - and one that I wrote the jist of on the FB thread (I didn't mention you or copy your words). So far nobody has come through - and I suspect that Odette's information that the immigration concern (in the UK at least) is about trying to sneak residency - which we cruisers are not...

As a 100% liveaboard boat, currently in the UK, it's a worry for us... the penalties talked of (boat impoundment, etc) would be totally catastrophic to us if they happened to come to pass.  Fingers crossed!

Cheers!


Hi Bill,
Thanks for extending the reach of the Schengen questions I posed and I appreciate your passing it on the way you did. Please, could you post on the Forum any results as I think it would be of interest to cruisers to see what is actually occurring in this area.
I believe you may have mis-represented my position somewhat and perhaps I was not clear. I was 3 years in Northern Europe (over-wintering and living aboard full-time in London) and 5 in the Med where I also considered myself full-time live-aboard. It was only the last couple of seasons that we left the boat for the winter (grandchildren are a compelling draw). That said, we did not spend every night of the year aboard any more than I spent every night in my home when I had a land base. In my experience, a 100% every night on board life was quite rare (I can’t think of any). Many/most I know, like Ginger and me, did some land cruising/touristing during the winter (over to the continent for ex.) and many/most slipped to their home country for a couple of weeks if only to let their drs., dentists etc. have a shot at them. And, in doing so, upon each return to the UK, we received a 6-month stamp whether returning from the continent or from the US allowing us a good deal of flexibility in making cruising plan choices.
And I very much appreciated the generosity of the UK in having this 6-month visa and I hope the UK knows that they benefitted as we spent a fair amount of money during our stays, and chose to have a lot of boat work accomplished, again more money spent. Maybe more important was the high regard Ginger and I developed for the UK in our extended time there. It is my take, that for most of us cruisers to Northern Europe, the UK’s generosity in this regard, makes cruising Northern Europe workable for those boats where Schengen is an issue.
If you are unable, uninterested or unwilling to leave the boat at all in the winter, then you are correct, this is a challenge for staying in the UK as it is in all of Europe and, I suspect, is a challenge in any country save your home country. In the UK, though, you have 6 months. It is a bit of a stretch, but arriving late in the season (we stayed in the protected waters of the Netherlands enjoying that marvelous country till we had a nice weather window in late Oct or early Nov.) and leaving early (we left the UK in April for Cuxhaven) is quite doable in the 6-month window and in this way, being within the 6 months limit while not having to leave the boat during this period.
(BTW, to return to the original question: Kestrel could do the above and stay with the boat all winter if choosing not to do any out-of-the-UK traveling. It entails some cool/cold weather sailing in a time where weather is often deteriorating, but crossing the channel is not a long trip and will get a boat to some lovely over-wintering spots on the east coast of England.)
You write that boat impoundment is talked about and, if true, that would be a huge repercussion: can you cite where that is reported as a sanction? And for what violation? I wonder, in the context of a Schengen conversation, whether you are conflating Schengen with VAT. Perhaps a Schengen violation could result in confiscation of the boat, but that seems unlikely for a visa violation. It does seem more likely that this could occur with over-staying VAT’s safe window of 1.5 years: impounding at least until the VAT fee and penalties were paid (plenty repercussion enough). In the 2 Schengen violations I cited in earlier posts (and the only ones I have ever heard about), neither included any sanctions or repercussions on the boat or threat of such, just repercussions on the people (fines or barring admittance).
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

Bill Balme
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Hi Dick,

You're right - I misinterpreted your sailing schedule in Europe. Sorry about that...
I don't have any factual evidence of penalties incurred by over-staying cruisers and your point that I may be confusing VAT issues is certainly possible. Nobody has since posted on the FB thread which appears to have now died...
With the very vague, sometimes contradictory immigration information, the fact that some EU countries have some special rules (like the Scandinavians, etc.), and on top of that, the advent of both Brexit and C-19, it has become exceedingly difficult to work out how we proceed from here (northern England). It is clear that trying to abide by all the deadlines (that we're aware of), makes long term cruising into the Med very difficult, with possible stops at non-Schengen countries limited to Morocco, Croatia and Turkey (without hitting the north African countries) - spending 6 months in one or a combination of them isn't particularly appealing...
We had a bit of a planning session this morning, and it looks like our best bet is to hit the European Atlantic coast only - then either cross back to the Caribbean or head south for Patagonia (pandemic allowing).
Cheers!


Bill Balme
s/v Toodle-oo!

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