Hi OH,
Whenever we entered UK and got stamped, the stamp said “Leave to enter for 6 months, employment and recourse to public funds prohibited”. We never questioned that we could then stay in the UK for the next 6 months. We left and returned often and considered the clock started whenever we returned and received this stamp. We did not do what might be called “visa” runs: taking the train to Paris for the weekend for ex., and getting a new stamp upon return. We did not need to. The only time official eyebrows were raised was, as reported in the earlier post, an official commented that we had been in Europe a long time, but she was referring to Europe (including the UK) and not just to our time in the UK.
I would not want you to feel I have answered your question definitively, as I am no immigration lawyer, and I am clear that if an official wants to find transgressions, they will never have a difficult time of it. I answer from the shoes of one who has done a lot of traveling, tries to follow all the rules, but who also tries to keep a low profile and not gather any attention.
I hope I have answered your question. Come back if I have missed something.
My best, Dick

Hello, Dick,

Yes, we are agreed anyone overstaying beyond the standard 6 month "leave of stay" (which is what the Brits call the everyday permission to enter), like the unfortunate Aussie, should expect no flexibility at all.

The rules are crystal clear: one cannot overstay even one day beyond the day for which leave has been granted. The penalties are severe.

The question is different. Are they counting days across separate trips and calculating a 180 day maximum?

For example, you arrive 1 January and stay until 30 April (4 months).
You leave.
You arrive back 1 October. You attempt to leave 25 December (2 months, 3 weeks).
You have now stayed 6 months + 3 weeks in one 360 day period.
This is calculated at your point of departure, with the following consequence:

===> You are deported on 25 December and banned from visiting the UK for 10 years <===

This is the proposed scenario. Does not look right.

Cheerio,
edited by Hasbun on 11/2/2017

Hi OH,
As said earlier, we were in and out of the UK over 5+ years and deeply appreciated the ability to be out of Schengen and to stay for 6 months. We were quite respectful of the UK’s rules and never explored any status that would allow us to stay longer than 6 months as we always flew home mid-winter for a couple of weeks and, even when sailing UK waters, managed to get across the channel for a while every summer.
We know of one Aussie who, when he returned to the UK, had it discovered that he had been in the UK more than 6 months when he had departed a few weeks earlier and he was denied entry and returned home for 3 months. We were never inconvenienced but were told sternly at one airport return that we had primarily been in European and UK territories for a long time and we should consider a new visa. We did nothing and continued in and out without further comment for 2-3 more years.
My experience is that UK officials take their rules seriously. That said, I believe port officials operating out of the Hotline understand our particular travel plans/history better and that airport/large ferry immigration officials are the most rigorous and least likely to cut any slack (makes sense, how many cruisers can they encounter and our passport history has got to be unusual and unusual = suspicious). That said, at any time one can draw an official who has gotten up on the wrong side of the bed.
I have no info on Leaves of Stay and have not heard of same. I have personal contacts that can facilitate your stay at SKD a great deal and will likely have more informed answers than I which I will send you if you contact me off-line.
I hope this helps, My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

Well, hello Dick!

I'd love to hear your comments on your stays in the UK, as we are going to be wintering at St Katharine's as well. We stay aboard year-round and usually don't go home (people come and visit us).

So, what are your thoughts on the British issuances of leave of stay? David Frost is of the opinion the Brits follow a strict 180 days max stay in 360 day period rule.

I, on the contrary, believe they don't want us to establish residence and certainly will be extremely strict and severely punish leave of stay overstayers, and certainly scrutinize entries and eventually deny admittance to people who come in repeatedly for lengthy periods, as they rightly should, but I don't think they are counting 180 days across separate entries.

What do you think, based on your experience?

OH
edited by Hasbun on 11/2/2017

Hi OH and David,
I was in and out of the UK for 5+ years (US flag) and used the hotline most every time. They would sometimes send someone to visit us personally, sometimes we had to request it as we preferred to get the actual stamp in our passports that we had cleared out of Schengen visa territory. (I assumed they kept records that would pop up if there was the need to track us in the future and we had finessed the actual stamp-getting.) They were always very accommodating and for the 3 years we wintered over on St. Katherine Docks, they came to us, as we called in from anchorages. As for Shetland, we did not use the hotline as the port Authorities would call immigration/customs, a very pleasant official who would come to the boat. The UK with its 6 month visa and the UK being not a part of Schengen played a huge part in allowing any reasonable cruising of Northern Europe. This is aside from being wonderful cruising grounds itself.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

Hello David,

Assuming everything looks alright, a non-visa-required foreigner is usually granted leave to stay of 6 months in the UK on initial arrival.

However, when we arrived in the Isles of Scilly in 2015 and called the National Yachtline to report our arrival, we were granted admission in the UK and yet our passports were not stamped. So, if one does not have evidence of how long one's leave of stay is, how can one substantiate the legality of one's stay? We only stayed in the UK for a few days before sailing for Brest.

Did you get stamps on your passport when you arrived in Shetland? How long is your leave of stay?

Cheers,

OH
At anchor, Marmaris

Hello all and thank you for this discussion. I am following with interest.
We arrived in Ireland after an Atlantic passage in 2016. Cruised the south coast and then wintered the boat in Netherlands. We returned to Australia for 5 months.
This season April to July we rushed round madly trying to see Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, Sweden and Norway before finally bolting to Shetland to get out of Schengen within the 3 months allowed.
Now we are cooling our heels in the UK for 3 months to before we can return to Belgium, where we will do the 3 months we are allowed then we bolt to the Netherlands.
I have confirmation from the Dutch Consulate that Australians are allowed 3 months in Netherlands upon entry not withstanding time spend in other Schengen areas. You may not arrive in Netherlands at any time previous to this or the 3 months will start ticking and does not stop.. So when we are done in Belgium we go to Netherlands but may not enter any other Schengen areas in this time because technically our Schengen visa is expired.
This agreement with Australia pre dated Schengen and the Dutch seem to be the only country still honouring this agreement.

The UK only allow 6 months in any 12 and we don't want to use our next 3 months because we need to get out of Schengen again in April and wait 3 months to go back and cross Biscay.

How complicated can it get. Plenty of people say just ignore it but its just to stressful wondering if the next uniformed officer on the dock is coming to your boat to deport you or worse.

I am very interested to know if there has been any progress on the Touring Visia discussed in this thread earlier.

cheers all and thanks
Taipan

[quote=Kingsley Ross]Ted - while it is not on your radar we just received our Italian Type D visas via the Miami consulate. It only about a week for them to issue it. They had no problem with us living on our boat.[/quote]


I would like to report that U.S. acquaintances had their "elective residence" Italian application locally denied this week because authorities in Italy did not find a marina address as suitable for this type of application.

I do not know if what our acquaintances call Italian "elective residence" is equivalent a French Type D Long Term Schengen Visa good for one year that we first obtained at the French consulate in the U.S. and then "confirmed" on arrival in France through a process involving the local immigration ministry.
edited by Hasbun on 10/8/2017

This discussion taken from the OCC Facebook page provides helpful information.

Felicity Critchlow
2 hrs
We are currently in Stavanger, Norway. This was our port of entry from Peterhead UK. The PO, Eoin Robson has been great and answered many of our questions. One thing which lead to confusion though was the official entry procedure. Not more than 5 minutes after we had tied up at the Oil Museum, two very friendly customs officials arrived. They had been tracking us on AIS at the airport, about 15 km away. They glanced at our passports and asked a few friendly questions and we 're done. Being a little concerned about the informality, we asked about stamps in our passports to validate our stay in Schengen. They told us that the police do stamps but it wasn 't a big deal and not to worry. Well, I worried because we were headed south to several other countries and feared that the attitude might not be so casual. We walked the couple of kilometres to the police station. After taking a number and asking about the stamp, the man at information had to go to the immigration department for an answer. No we don 't do that, maybe at the airport but I really don 't think it is necessary. Well for 144NOK we enjoyed the bus ride out to the airport. The helpful policewoman explained that yes, we had done the right thing. It was necessary to get a stamp in our passport as we entered Schengen territory. Yes, we probably would have encountered a problem if anyone had checked. She also explained that while we do not have to check into each country, we do have to check out of the last Schengen country we leave, stopping the clock and perhaps leaving us days to come back if we had not used all 90 days. This may not be news to more experienced cruisers but we found it confusing trying to find answers. Apparently this is confusion about the police is only in places where there is an airport, Otherwise the local force takes care of it assuming it is an official port of entry.
Unlike · Comment
You, Agustin Martin and Eoin Robson like this.
View 2 more comments

Eoin Robson The difference is that when you arrive from a non-Schengen EU country (currently only Ireland and the UK) by commercial air or sea transport to a Schengen country, the passport is inspected by the police visually but not stamped (assuming you 're an EU/EEA citizen).
45 mins · Edited · Like

Pete Jobson Thanks for the clarification Eion. I wonder how many people must be flouting this rule through ignorance? Certainly me!
53 mins · Like · 1

Eoin Robson I could confuse you even more Pete, if I explain that Norway is in the EEA, is in the Schengen and not in the EU. This means your passport is not inspected by the police when arriving in Norway from the EU (except when arriving from UK/Ireland), but nonetheless you must go through customs (be it through red or green). Iceland is the only other country that falls in this category.
48 mins · Edited · Like · 1


Eoin Robson Referring to "flouting the rule by ignorance," I guess it would be difficult for the Schengen authorities to prove that you did not get your passport checked if you arrived in France (Schengen area) by your boat from the U.K. because EU passports are n...See More
June 16 at 5:16pm · Like

Daria Blackwell Felicity Critchlow, have you filled in the Schengen survey? It would be helpful if you have not yet. I am also copying this discussion onto the Forum so we don 't lose it.
June 16 at 5:29pm · Like

Kingsley Ross I had a similar experience last summer on the way up the Rhine (to the Black Sea via the Danube). Knowing I needed a stamp since since Hungarian would likely look for one as we cked out of Schengen, we had to go to an airport to get it. It cost 100€ by taxi but the Hungarians did look for so it was money well spent.
June 16 at 6:25pm · Edited · Like

Gus Wilson We were first told in Norway we did not have to do anything re chekcing in, other than a phone call when getting close to Tanager. The guy on the phone asked what size our boat was, and when told, said you are too smal lfor us to worry about. Welcome t...See More
June 16 at 10:53pm · Like · 1

Eoin Robson Presumably you were in Stavanger too Gus at one point? I 'm guessing as you mentioned Tananger (the nearby port).
June 16 at 11:05pm · Edited · Like


Niki Phillips Have fun in Norway Felicity Critchlow; we hope to follow in your wake next year
23 hrs · Like · 1

Felicity Critchlow Daria Blackwell yes I have filled in the survey. I hope it will make some impact. Gus Wilson I agree that most officials don 't seem to care. The police officer at the airport indicated that the area served by the airport, including Tanager I would thin...See More
16 hrs · Unlike · 1

Eoin Robson Yes, when we fly from Norway (a non-EU Schengen country) to Denmark (an EU Schengen country), we must clear customs but our passports are not checked. In principle we are allowed to go through the Schengen without our passports. Only Norway and Iceland are non-EU Schengen countries.
15 hrs · Like

Gus Wilson Felicity Critchlow I suspect you will have an equally hard time finding anyone in Sweden to clear you in customs. First time coming from Norway, we went to the ferry terminal and had them stamp a paper someone had given us, and our ship 's papers. But ti took two trips to the ferrry terminal, separated by an hour in the police station with friendly policemen who made calls to figure out if we needed to do anything, and the answere was no. But that year we wanted documentation of when we returned to the EU, and finally the person at the counter in the ferry terminal shrugged her shoulders, and said sure.
2 hrs · Like · 1

Daria Blackwell Good luck finding a customs/immigration agent in Ireland (EU non-Schengen). The Garda (police) handle immigration but only on a part time basis. Westport, for example, has an agent here once a week. Customs, though listed officially in Westport, is in Castlebar, 30 miles inland. It hasn 't been in Westport since the turn of the century. That 's why we 've just written a book, Cruising the Wild Atlantic Way, which explains all this about sailing in Ireland.

There is a new EU funded initiative called the #EUCoolRoute that is just getting off the ground. It is to develop a cruising route from Cork in Ireland to Norway. I am involved in it accidentally because of the book but I think the OCC can play a major role, and this EUCoolRoute may be a way to push through a long-term travel visa. I have just emailed the contact information of the people involved in Norway to the POs up there. I am in touch with the core organizer in Cork. I will take it up with him. If we can show that it is economically critical to lift travel restrictions to make the CoolRoute viable, then we will have an EU economic initiative behind it.

Vice Commodore, OCC 

As of 14 June 2015 we have 111 responses. This is a great response but more are needed to make the survey credible so if you haven 't completed it, please do. To date 61% of the respondents are still cruising Europe and 88% were required to leave Schengen countries earlier than they wanted because of visa restrictions.

Vice Commodore, OCC