Best Practices - Jordan Series Drogue


Author
Message
Dick
Dick
Forum Expert (946 reputation)Forum Expert (946 reputation)Forum Expert (946 reputation)Forum Expert (946 reputation)Forum Expert (946 reputation)Forum Expert (946 reputation)Forum Expert (946 reputation)Forum Expert (946 reputation)Forum Expert (946 reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 958, Visits: 1.3K
Simon Currin - 18 Jan 2024
Here is Trevor Roberton’s blog about JSD’s describing his experience gained from 11 deployments in anger http://iron-bark.blogspot.com/2023/09/notes-on-use-of-jordan-drogue.html

Simon

Hi Simon,
I have read a number of descriptions of the use of the JSD, but this is among the best: in part as he covers all the basics as well as the potential pitfalls. Trevor also makes clear the amount of work it takes to keep the boat safe when conditions get to the point where a JSD is necessary.
And this from a sailor who, as the saying goes, has been-there-done-that.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

Tim.Good
Tim.Good
New Member (5 reputation)New Member (5 reputation)New Member (5 reputation)New Member (5 reputation)New Member (5 reputation)New Member (5 reputation)New Member (5 reputation)New Member (5 reputation)New Member (5 reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3, Visits: 1
Thanks Simon. Interesting use of the bridle retrieval line being use to skew the boat by some angle when different swells combine. Very interesting concept. That method perhaps warrants a much stronger retrieval line than perhaps others are using. I think I’ll do the same from now on.
Tom.Ray
Tom.Ray
New Member (6 reputation)New Member (6 reputation)New Member (6 reputation)New Member (6 reputation)New Member (6 reputation)New Member (6 reputation)New Member (6 reputation)New Member (6 reputation)New Member (6 reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 5, Visits: 1
Daria Blackwell - 13 Mar 2021
I just came across this article by Beth Leonard and Evans Starzinger who used the Galerider . 

https://www.practical-sailor.com/sails-rigging-deckgear/heavy-weather-sailing-gear

Daria - Thanks for posting this article. A key statement in the article pertains to the purpose of the drogue deployed, speed-limiting like the Gale Rider or medium-pull like the JSD - two different purposes. We have an Outbound 46. She can surf and we have seen speeds of 10+ knots for short periods. We carry a Gale Rider but have never had to deploy it an anger. Ideally we would have the space to carry both the Gale Rider and a JSD but as live aboards, space is super premium so the decision was made to carry the Gale Rider. Having listened in on the JSD webinar, I now question if we should swap out the Gale Rider for a JSD. We're still mulling that one over. Needless to say, prudent seamanship calls for a well thought out strategy and the tools to implement the heavy weather tactics called for in a given situation. 
Tim.Good
Tim.Good
New Member (5 reputation)New Member (5 reputation)New Member (5 reputation)New Member (5 reputation)New Member (5 reputation)New Member (5 reputation)New Member (5 reputation)New Member (5 reputation)New Member (5 reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3, Visits: 1
Daria,

If you’re happen surfing at 10+ kts in control then I imagine gale rider wouldn’t come out much at the boat has good directional stability plus you’re an experienced helms person. As such I think you’d be better with the JSD since it would be a better solution in a really bad, long last long storm / depression where you could both rest rather than one of you being in the helm.

I haven’t used a Gale Rider but imagine with a bridle and good self steering it would be ok to go down below? Would you sleep or rest well in that circumstance and would you be happen to let the combination of the GR and self steering do its thing in really bad breaking waves?
Tom.Ray
Tom.Ray
New Member (6 reputation)New Member (6 reputation)New Member (6 reputation)New Member (6 reputation)New Member (6 reputation)New Member (6 reputation)New Member (6 reputation)New Member (6 reputation)New Member (6 reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 5, Visits: 1
Tim.Good - 21 Jan 2024
Daria,If you’re happen surfing at 10+ kts in control then I imagine gale rider wouldn’t come out much at the boat has good directional stability plus you’re an experienced helms person. As such I think you’d be better with the JSD since it would be a better solution in a really bad, long last long storm / depression where you could both rest rather than one of you being in the helm.I haven’t used a Gale Rider but imagine with a bridle and good self steering it would be ok to go down below? Would you sleep or rest well in that circumstance and would you be happen to let the combination of the GR and self steering do its thing in really bad breaking waves?

Tim - your points are valid and hence why I am considering making the swap. Gale Rider slows the boat down but doesn't being it to a 2-3 kt crawl. Sleep deprivation can and often does lead to poor decision making. Thanks for your response.

Tom
Dick
Dick
Forum Expert (946 reputation)Forum Expert (946 reputation)Forum Expert (946 reputation)Forum Expert (946 reputation)Forum Expert (946 reputation)Forum Expert (946 reputation)Forum Expert (946 reputation)Forum Expert (946 reputation)Forum Expert (946 reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 958, Visits: 1.3K
Tom.Ray - 21 Jan 2024
Daria Blackwell - 13 Mar 2021
I just came across this article by Beth Leonard and Evans Starzinger who used the Galerider . 

https://www.practical-sailor.com/sails-rigging-deckgear/heavy-weather-sailing-gear

Daria - Thanks for posting this article. A key statement in the article pertains to the purpose of the drogue deployed, speed-limiting like the Gale Rider or medium-pull like the JSD - two different purposes. We have an Outbound 46. She can surf and we have seen speeds of 10+ knots for short periods. We carry a Gale Rider but have never had to deploy it an anger. Ideally we would have the space to carry both the Gale Rider and a JSD but as live aboards, space is super premium so the decision was made to carry the Gale Rider. Having listened in on the JSD webinar, I now question if we should swap out the Gale Rider for a JSD. We're still mulling that one over. Needless to say, prudent seamanship calls for a well thought out strategy and the tools to implement the heavy weather tactics called for in a given situation. 

Hi Tom and all,
I agree that the JSD and the Gale Rider are 2 different beasts.
Since starting ocean passages 20+ years ago, I have carried a GR fit for size of my 40-foot boat. It is small and light. Any weight involved is in the rode and chain and are gear I would be carrying anyway for back-up as ground tackle. In that way the GR did not take up any real space nor did it add weight. (With luck and skill, the GR might serve as the best piece of gear to carry if your steering is lost.)
The JSD, when I carried it, was a good deal of additional weight for I carried it on deck ready-to-go where it was continually wet (HM lines will not hold water the way mine did and should be a consideration if buying new). Even dry, it was not easy to move around, let alone find room for on our 40-foot boat and we were live-aboard also. I would think on your 46-foot boat, it would be easier to find room, but that the JSD would be that much bulkier and heavier.
I will be interested in others opinion on this, but my expectation (luckily no experience) was that, after a successful deployment of the JSD (something I did not take for granted) and settled the steering, that we could basically take it easy: kind-of like hove-to.
In contrast, my expectation for the GR was that, after successful deployment, there would need to be active crew involvement when running off in storms of JSD/GR magnitude. (I am assuming a strategy of initially heaving-to until such time as the breaking waves and/or comfort level suggested/demanded running off under a drogue.) This active involvement would be at the helm and would demand skill, anticipation and occasional quick reactions. And stamina, as the storm may go on for many hours or even days.
Clearly the JSD would better keep the stern meeting the waves and make broaches less likely (or not at all likely). With the GR there would need to be active involvement from the crew. I am suspecting that a windvane and or autopilot might not be sufficient for safety with a GR.
I mention this as many boats might not have crew members up to this task. It will be hard work and will benefit from much previous experience on the helm in various conditions, some lousy. And the boat will need 2 crew members with this skill as, to stay sharp, being on the helm will need to be relieved regularly: probably an hour or less as time goes on. This may be more of an issue for those sailing as a couple where the less experienced crew might be more of a danger on the helm than an autopilot or vane.
In that case, consideration might push a boat to opt for a JSD for it “hands off” properties.
Random thoughts, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

GO

Merge Selected

Merge into selected topic...



Merge into merge target...



Merge into a specific topic ID...




Login

Search