Best Practices - Jordan Series Drogue


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Steve Brown
Steve Brown
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I have now collated all the feedback and passed it on to Martin Thomas who is editing the new edition of "Heavy Weather Sailing".
It was great to hear first hand accounts from Randall Reeves, Jeanne Socrates, Tony Gooch, Tim Good and Susanne Huber-Curphey among many others. The new edition of HWS will appear in due course but should anyone be considering venturing into the more extreme conditions and want to know more about the JSD I have attached a copy of my summary below.
I would also like to hear of some of the more technical aspects from anyone that has used the JSD .
Boat length and weight
number and type of cones
approximate distance from the stern to the first cones
Tail weight used
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Simon Currin
Simon Currin
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Thanks Steve that’s brilliant. We have bolted on stainless chain plates for ours but never used it in anger.
Daria Blackwell
Daria Blackwell
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I just came across this article by Beth Leonard and Evans Starzinger who used the Galerider . 

https://www.practical-sailor.com/sails-rigging-deckgear/heavy-weather-sailing-gear

Vice Commodore, OCC 
Palmer
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Steve Brown - 4 Mar 2021
I have now collated all the feedback and passed it on to Martin Thomas who is editing the new edition of "Heavy Weather Sailing".
It was great to hear first hand accounts from Randall Reeves, Jeanne Socrates, Tony Gooch, Tim Good and Susanne Huber-Curphey among many others. The new edition of HWS will appear in due course but should anyone be considering venturing into the more extreme conditions and want to know more about the JSD I have attached a copy of my summary below.
I would also like to hear of some of the more technical aspects from anyone that has used the JSD .
Boat length and weight
number and type of cones
approximate distance from the stern to the first cones
Tail weight used


Steve, thank - its a great summary and when I need a JSD it will be good to be able to rely on the distilled wisdom of such an experienced group of sailors. I have a question about single handed retrieval. One of issues seems to be that cones and self tailing winches don't get on too well, yet tailing by hand is tedious and slow on your own. What about having a long retrieval line that goes forward around a snatch block on the toe rail then back to the main sheet winch? That way you can winch in almost one boat's length using the self tailing, then repeat the process. I guess tying off the drouge still in the water and then reattaching the retrieval rope takes a bit of time, but it feels like it is a controlled process that exploits the full power of a big self tailing sheet winch. Going one step further, I guess you could use the anchor winch, but that would need two snatch block to get the lead to the winch correct.

Dick
Dick
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Palmer - 3 Apr 2021
Steve Brown - 4 Mar 2021
I have now collated all the feedback and passed it on to Martin Thomas who is editing the new edition of "Heavy Weather Sailing".
It was great to hear first hand accounts from Randall Reeves, Jeanne Socrates, Tony Gooch, Tim Good and Susanne Huber-Curphey among many others. The new edition of HWS will appear in due course but should anyone be considering venturing into the more extreme conditions and want to know more about the JSD I have attached a copy of my summary below.
I would also like to hear of some of the more technical aspects from anyone that has used the JSD .
Boat length and weight
number and type of cones
approximate distance from the stern to the first cones
Tail weight used


Steve, thank - its a great summary and when I need a JSD it will be good to be able to rely on the distilled wisdom of such an experienced group of sailors. I have a question about single handed retrieval. One of issues seems to be that cones and self tailing winches don't get on too well, yet tailing by hand is tedious and slow on your own. What about having a long retrieval line that goes forward around a snatch block on the toe rail then back to the main sheet winch? That way you can winch in almost one boat's length using the self tailing, then repeat the process. I guess tying off the drouge still in the water and then reattaching the retrieval rope takes a bit of time, but it feels like it is a controlled process that exploits the full power of a big self tailing sheet winch. Going one step further, I guess you could use the anchor winch, but that would need two snatch block to get the lead to the winch correct.



Dick
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Dick - 3 Apr 2021
Palmer - 3 Apr 2021
Steve Brown - 4 Mar 2021
I have now collated all the feedback and passed it on to Martin Thomas who is editing the new edition of "Heavy Weather Sailing".
It was great to hear first hand accounts from Randall Reeves, Jeanne Socrates, Tony Gooch, Tim Good and Susanne Huber-Curphey among many others. The new edition of HWS will appear in due course but should anyone be considering venturing into the more extreme conditions and want to know more about the JSD I have attached a copy of my summary below.
I would also like to hear of some of the more technical aspects from anyone that has used the JSD .
Boat length and weight
number and type of cones
approximate distance from the stern to the first cones
Tail weight used


Steve, thank - its a great summary and when I need a JSD it will be good to be able to rely on the distilled wisdom of such an experienced group of sailors. I have a question about single handed retrieval. One of issues seems to be that cones and self tailing winches don't get on too well, yet tailing by hand is tedious and slow on your own. What about having a long retrieval line that goes forward around a snatch block on the toe rail then back to the main sheet winch? That way you can winch in almost one boat's length using the self tailing, then repeat the process. I guess tying off the drouge still in the water and then reattaching the retrieval rope takes a bit of time, but it feels like it is a controlled process that exploits the full power of a big self tailing sheet winch. Going one step further, I guess you could use the anchor winch, but that would need two snatch block to get the lead to the winch correct.



Hi Palmer,
I believe that is the preferred method for retrieving a JSD whether single-handed or crewed. It was the what I would have used if I had deployed mine.
In the realm of the usefulness of having knowledge of “old” practices, this method is the same as the retrieval of the huge anchor rodes on square rigged ships where the cable is far too large to go around a capstan: so, messenger lines (forget their technical name) are used with rolling hitches to draw the cable in.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

Palmer
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Dick - 3 Apr 2021
Dick - 3 Apr 2021
Palmer - 3 Apr 2021
Steve Brown - 4 Mar 2021
I have now collated all the feedback and passed it on to Martin Thomas who is editing the new edition of "Heavy Weather Sailing".
It was great to hear first hand accounts from Randall Reeves, Jeanne Socrates, Tony Gooch, Tim Good and Susanne Huber-Curphey among many others. The new edition of HWS will appear in due course but should anyone be considering venturing into the more extreme conditions and want to know more about the JSD I have attached a copy of my summary below.
I would also like to hear of some of the more technical aspects from anyone that has used the JSD .
Boat length and weight
number and type of cones
approximate distance from the stern to the first cones
Tail weight used


Steve, thank - its a great summary and when I need a JSD it will be good to be able to rely on the distilled wisdom of such an experienced group of sailors. I have a question about single handed retrieval. One of issues seems to be that cones and self tailing winches don't get on too well, yet tailing by hand is tedious and slow on your own. What about having a long retrieval line that goes forward around a snatch block on the toe rail then back to the main sheet winch? That way you can winch in almost one boat's length using the self tailing, then repeat the process. I guess tying off the drouge still in the water and then reattaching the retrieval rope takes a bit of time, but it feels like it is a controlled process that exploits the full power of a big self tailing sheet winch. Going one step further, I guess you could use the anchor winch, but that would need two snatch block to get the lead to the winch correct.



Hi Palmer,
I believe that is the preferred method for retrieving a JSD whether single-handed or crewed. It was the what I would have used if I had deployed mine.
In the realm of the usefulness of having knowledge of “old” practices, this method is the same as the retrieval of the huge anchor rodes on square rigged ships where the cable is far too large to go around a capstan: so, messenger lines (forget their technical name) are used with rolling hitches to draw the cable in.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

Thanks - maybe I have read it somewhere else - but either way it is good to know that people use that method.
Dick
Dick
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Palmer - 3 Apr 2021
Dick - 3 Apr 2021
Dick - 3 Apr 2021
Palmer - 3 Apr 2021
Steve Brown - 4 Mar 2021
I have now collated all the feedback and passed it on to Martin Thomas who is editing the new edition of "Heavy Weather Sailing".
It was great to hear first hand accounts from Randall Reeves, Jeanne Socrates, Tony Gooch, Tim Good and Susanne Huber-Curphey among many others. The new edition of HWS will appear in due course but should anyone be considering venturing into the more extreme conditions and want to know more about the JSD I have attached a copy of my summary below.
I would also like to hear of some of the more technical aspects from anyone that has used the JSD .
Boat length and weight
number and type of cones
approximate distance from the stern to the first cones
Tail weight used


Steve, thank - its a great summary and when I need a JSD it will be good to be able to rely on the distilled wisdom of such an experienced group of sailors. I have a question about single handed retrieval. One of issues seems to be that cones and self tailing winches don't get on too well, yet tailing by hand is tedious and slow on your own. What about having a long retrieval line that goes forward around a snatch block on the toe rail then back to the main sheet winch? That way you can winch in almost one boat's length using the self tailing, then repeat the process. I guess tying off the drouge still in the water and then reattaching the retrieval rope takes a bit of time, but it feels like it is a controlled process that exploits the full power of a big self tailing sheet winch. Going one step further, I guess you could use the anchor winch, but that would need two snatch block to get the lead to the winch correct.



Hi Palmer,
I believe that is the preferred method for retrieving a JSD whether single-handed or crewed. It was the what I would have used if I had deployed mine.
In the realm of the usefulness of having knowledge of “old” practices, this method is the same as the retrieval of the huge anchor rodes on square rigged ships where the cable is far too large to go around a capstan: so, messenger lines (forget their technical name) are used with rolling hitches to draw the cable in.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

Thanks - maybe I have read it somewhere else - but either way it is good to know that people use that method.

Perhaps Steve can confirm my sense of things. Dic
Noel.Dilly
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I have very much enjoyed the expert contribution to the Drogue forum. I have only deployed my home made drogue on three occasions, twice in anger(near terror) and once in a series of experiments.

If you can use a sewing machine you can make a drogue. If you can read Don Jordon”s articles you can work out the dimensions for your boat. If anyone needs any advice or a template for cutting out the drogues I will help. I would not use dyneema as the line . All arresting devices should have some elasticity to avoid impact loading. Hitting things breaks them. I prefer good old nylon anchor plait.

The bridles need massive snap hooks, hanging on trying to put pins in shackles with only two hands available is not easy. The anchorages as has been stressed should be substantial. It in not wise to introduce chafe in the system by having them inboard. The transom or the flanks of the stern are far better sites.
Storage. I use a drum (photo)

Deployment. Start early the preliminary steps are easy to reverse if you are lucky enough not to have to complete the deployment. Take your time fitting the bridles first. They should already be marked with equal distances from the junction with the main line. I have one bridle twice as long as the other. This extra length bridle is very useful when retrieving the drogue. What I do basically is take it to the bow, and put it via the stem head fitting on the anchor winch. Release the other bridle swing round facing the drogue start the engine, and using the winch slowly motor up the drogue retrieving it. Take care as the cones mass through the fitting.
Actual deployment. I prefer the loop method- Bridle and cone free line in first then the first of the cones will enter the water facing backwards. At this point I remove the paddle and vane from the self steering. Let out the rest of the drogue until only the spliced in chain remains abroad . Then drop the chain over the side of the stern. I once added more chain with no obvious difference to the angle of dangle. My unit has 3 metres of 10mm chain.

The drogue is now deployed and it is time to have a tot of malt whisky with Lord Neptune.

Noel Dilly
Dick
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Noel.Dilly - 5 Apr 2021
I have very much enjoyed the expert contribution to the Drogue forum. I have only deployed my home made drogue on three occasions, twice in anger(near terror) and once in a series of experiments.

If you can use a sewing machine you can make a drogue. If you can read Don Jordon”s articles you can work out the dimensions for your boat. If anyone needs any advice or a template for cutting out the drogues I will help. I would not use dyneema as the line . All arresting devices should have some elasticity to avoid impact loading. Hitting things breaks them. I prefer good old nylon anchor plait.

The bridles need massive snap hooks, hanging on trying to put pins in shackles with only two hands available is not easy. The anchorages as has been stressed should be substantial. It in not wise to introduce chafe in the system by having them inboard. The transom or the flanks of the stern are far better sites.
Storage. I use a drum (photo)

Deployment. Start early the preliminary steps are easy to reverse if you are lucky enough not to have to complete the deployment. Take your time fitting the bridles first. They should already be marked with equal distances from the junction with the main line. I have one bridle twice as long as the other. This extra length bridle is very useful when retrieving the drogue. What I do basically is take it to the bow, and put it via the stem head fitting on the anchor winch. Release the other bridle swing round facing the drogue start the engine, and using the winch slowly motor up the drogue retrieving it. Take care as the cones mass through the fitting.
Actual deployment. I prefer the loop method- Bridle and cone free line in first then the first of the cones will enter the water facing backwards. At this point I remove the paddle and vane from the self steering. Let out the rest of the drogue until only the spliced in chain remains abroad . Then drop the chain over the side of the stern. I once added more chain with no obvious difference to the angle of dangle. My unit has 3 metres of 10mm chain.

The drogue is now deployed and it is time to have a tot of malt whisky with Lord Neptune.

Noel Dilly

Hi Noel,
   It is great to have a field report: the best kind of information.
   I agree that some stretch is nice to mitigate shock loading. I mention synthetics (Dyneema is one) as my JSD with its nylon braid was incredibly heavy when soaked with water (40-foot boat) and conventional line was like a sponge where high modulus line sheds water and remains pretty much its original weight. My reading and research have led me to believe that HM line can be used successfully (perhaps the bridle can or should be nylon to mitigate some of the shock loading).
   These are still early days in many respects, and the jury is still out with some details of construction, even though, already, I believe the JSD has proven itself to be very effective in storm/survival conditions. Any skipper is wise to do a good deal of research on his/her own to in determining the details.
   In any case, in reading and research, the loads on a JSD will be enormous. Boats I know have done pretty massive chainplates on the stern of their boats. It takes some planning to do it right.

My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy




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